Dear @almarg and friends: This came for the very first post by Wyn:
"" the bottom line is- you’ll never get it perfect. You can either listen and decide what you like......... A couple of other things, the RIAA deemphasis of your amp comes into play, and it’s not unusual for that to be off c. 0.5dB or so over some frequency range, and most amps have restricted frequency responses to reduce the infrasonic and ultrasonic signals.
Also, your room/speaker response is probably poor with errors at least as large as any from the above sources, so unless you’ve characterized and corrected that then listening is probably your best bet. """
and then from the others posts these hiligths:
""" I'm a believer in fixing the problem where it exists and not by adding an additional parameter to an already over-constrained problem. """
""" Unfortunately accentuated dynamics and resolution all too often mean a really nasty peak at the HF. In my experience......... testing the RIAA response can be a real eye opener.
Most of the differences in response that occur due to changes in load are in the 10k-20kHz range. """
""" Again, listening is best, but be careful not to delude yourself.
Audiophiles (myself included) tend to get seduced by what are essentially deviations from what the real listening experience provides- such as excessive detail, ability to resolve supposed room artifacts etc. etc.
These effects, in my substantial experience of live performances, just do not exist in a live listening environment,..."""
""" take the Madake for instance- the resistive load that people (reviewers) claim is best literally varies by nearly four orders of magnitude! I load mine with 60 ohms (as do many users) and I find that the resolution and dynamics is excellent while maintaining a natural timbre, tonal balance and micro/macro dynamics while not creating the unnatural etched image that many "high resolution" MC cartridges produce. """
""" increasing the R to 47k shows significant near-oscillation at the output of the preamp.
The passive design shows none of these pathologies with the change in load R, and always has a significantly slower and essentially constant, risetime,......................................................................................................................... perhaps the answer to the loading question is, no matter how unlikely it seems- it depends on the architecture of your phono """
Everything he posted is full of lessons for me and maybe for some other readers.
Is important for me read those highligths that gives a more " affordable " information for all and important to note his " perhaps " in last higligth.
This thread made that I remembered one time in one of my trips to USA when in an audiophile place whom owned a top system/room audio system ( 150K-200K $$$. ) I attended and when we were listening his system I noted something was wrong with the tonal balance of his LOMC cartridge .
His system in those times ( between other items ) had: Walker TT, Dali top of the line speakers, tube monobloks amps, first rate cables everywhere, very good room treatment many audiophile tweaks and a four chasis all tube phono stage ( no SUT. ).
Mi first question to him was the value of the load he was using where I ask him to lower to at least 100 ohms and he did it ( he was loading it at way higher R. ) and ligths come out " and he noted at once as I did it."
Everything changed for the better. Over the time my experiences with my and other systems attest the same behavior ( tubes and SS electronics. ).
Al, I posted to you that the capacitance issue is almost useless when exist several other critical subjects we have to fix in our systems before that.
As Wyn posted: " so unless you’ve characterized and corrected that then listening is probably your best bet. """ followed by:
"""
fixing the problem where it exists and not by adding an additional parameter to an already over-constrained problem """
Analog is full of " problems " and " problems " of more vital importance that the capacitance issue and are on those " main problems " where we have to work before other " new " parameter.
If I remember years ago (but I'm not sure if he was. ) I read probably in the long MM thread a JC post telling that for capacitance could has an audible effect with LOMC cartridges the amount of capacitance must be truly high. This was the second time that I read it ( first time somewhere in the net. ) . As I said not totally sure if was JC but was in Agon. I really never bother about as I don't bother yet.
As @krelldog and @catcher10: "
There is a tremendous amount of info here, both super technical as well as the basics """.
R.
"" the bottom line is- you’ll never get it perfect. You can either listen and decide what you like......... A couple of other things, the RIAA deemphasis of your amp comes into play, and it’s not unusual for that to be off c. 0.5dB or so over some frequency range, and most amps have restricted frequency responses to reduce the infrasonic and ultrasonic signals.
Also, your room/speaker response is probably poor with errors at least as large as any from the above sources, so unless you’ve characterized and corrected that then listening is probably your best bet. """
and then from the others posts these hiligths:
""" I'm a believer in fixing the problem where it exists and not by adding an additional parameter to an already over-constrained problem. """
""" Unfortunately accentuated dynamics and resolution all too often mean a really nasty peak at the HF. In my experience......... testing the RIAA response can be a real eye opener.
Most of the differences in response that occur due to changes in load are in the 10k-20kHz range. """
""" Again, listening is best, but be careful not to delude yourself.
Audiophiles (myself included) tend to get seduced by what are essentially deviations from what the real listening experience provides- such as excessive detail, ability to resolve supposed room artifacts etc. etc.
These effects, in my substantial experience of live performances, just do not exist in a live listening environment,..."""
""" take the Madake for instance- the resistive load that people (reviewers) claim is best literally varies by nearly four orders of magnitude! I load mine with 60 ohms (as do many users) and I find that the resolution and dynamics is excellent while maintaining a natural timbre, tonal balance and micro/macro dynamics while not creating the unnatural etched image that many "high resolution" MC cartridges produce. """
""" increasing the R to 47k shows significant near-oscillation at the output of the preamp.
The passive design shows none of these pathologies with the change in load R, and always has a significantly slower and essentially constant, risetime,......................................................................................................................... perhaps the answer to the loading question is, no matter how unlikely it seems- it depends on the architecture of your phono """
Everything he posted is full of lessons for me and maybe for some other readers.
Is important for me read those highligths that gives a more " affordable " information for all and important to note his " perhaps " in last higligth.
This thread made that I remembered one time in one of my trips to USA when in an audiophile place whom owned a top system/room audio system ( 150K-200K $$$. ) I attended and when we were listening his system I noted something was wrong with the tonal balance of his LOMC cartridge .
His system in those times ( between other items ) had: Walker TT, Dali top of the line speakers, tube monobloks amps, first rate cables everywhere, very good room treatment many audiophile tweaks and a four chasis all tube phono stage ( no SUT. ).
Mi first question to him was the value of the load he was using where I ask him to lower to at least 100 ohms and he did it ( he was loading it at way higher R. ) and ligths come out " and he noted at once as I did it."
Everything changed for the better. Over the time my experiences with my and other systems attest the same behavior ( tubes and SS electronics. ).
Al, I posted to you that the capacitance issue is almost useless when exist several other critical subjects we have to fix in our systems before that.
As Wyn posted: " so unless you’ve characterized and corrected that then listening is probably your best bet. """ followed by:
"""
fixing the problem where it exists and not by adding an additional parameter to an already over-constrained problem """
Analog is full of " problems " and " problems " of more vital importance that the capacitance issue and are on those " main problems " where we have to work before other " new " parameter.
If I remember years ago (but I'm not sure if he was. ) I read probably in the long MM thread a JC post telling that for capacitance could has an audible effect with LOMC cartridges the amount of capacitance must be truly high. This was the second time that I read it ( first time somewhere in the net. ) . As I said not totally sure if was JC but was in Agon. I really never bother about as I don't bother yet.
As @krelldog and @catcher10: "
There is a tremendous amount of info here, both super technical as well as the basics """.
R.