2. amps-preamps
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Where do I go from here?

    • Marantz AV-7005, pre/pro (with balanced outputs and 1.4a HDMI);  Rotel RMB-1565, surrounds and center;  Rotel RKB-650, mains w/ bi-amping;  Martin Logan Motion 20, mains;  Martin Logan Motion 8 Center; Klipsch SW-10, sub;  KEF iQ-5, surrounds;  Klipsch RS-41 II, surround backs
    • Alright y'all, here is your chance to help out the newbie with your thoughts and opinions. Thanks in advance for what you may offer.  I have the above system, which is sounding really nice, with many of the qualities I've been looking for, but the upgraditis is creeping in, (again, sigh) and I am wondering which of the components may represent the weak link to my music listening nirvana?  As some my recognize, I recently added the Motion 20's to the lineup, much to my satisfaction, but where might I go from here.  I'm thinking my better half may let me get away with another $1500-2000 before I'm sleeping with the system and not her, LOL.  Since I'm more interested in the musicality of the system, listening to a mix of female vocal, rock, and dipping into the ambient realm now and then, I'm considering the replacement of the Rotel RKD-650 with something in a nice stereo configuration, possibly 3-channel to pick up the center. I'm really looking to broaden and deepen the soundstage as much as anything.  What do you think?
    128x128wisciman99
    tls49's avatar
    tls49
    1,351 posts
     
    Bi-amping should be avoided unless it is done properly. This means you would need to bypass the speaker’s internal crossover, and use an external line level crossover. Just go back to your original hookup, like the one I stated in my post. Also, for 2 channel try turning off the Audyssey EQ. There is an AV-7005 review that says doing so improves the music presentation. You may need to do a little manual tweeking with the EQ off.

    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    Thanks again, tls, I moved the amps around and went with the bi-amping (as you were responding, sorry) from the 1565 and put the center on the 5th channel.  Threw in a little Pink Floyd and had voices and instruments from the phantom center with some 'air' behind them, also, after a small tweak to the speaker position (I gave them about a 5 or 10 degree tilt backwards, and slid the left speaker about 2 inches further left), I had a broader and somewhat deeper soundstage.  I will double check on the Audyssey setting, but I don't believe I'm using it.  I will reroute the cabling tomorrow to your suggestion without the bi-amping and check for any difference.  Much appreciated.
    m-db's avatar
    m-db
    964 posts
     
    One of the most common mistakes I run into and especially with home theater is speaker location.  
    Have you tried radically locating your main speakers and considered Golden Ratio or the rule of thirds? In most cases these methods will cause great consternation among loved ones and friends. Even so to take a day clearing the listening area and experimenting with locating the mains and using an office chair as a mobil listening position your systems potential and the nature of your room may surprise you. 

    As to home theater I'm in the 7.1 camp using small identical speakers as equal distance and hight to the listening position as possible. No dipole or (WTW) center channel speakers unless they're all centers and a decent sub. Since its just TV a modern receiver using as little if any room correction as possible seems to be plenty. 



    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    your systems potential and the nature of your room may surprise you.
    Hey m, thanks for your thoughts.  I have the mains spread about 8' apart, about 2 ' off the front wall (with sound baffling along the baseboard to reign in the bass a little), leaned back about 10 degrees, and slightly toed in.  My listening post is about 10' from each.  I moved them apart slowly until the phantom center started to disappear.  My mid surrounds are equidistant from the front wall and my listening spot.  The Klipsh, while not a true dipole, fire left and right a little higher on the back wall, again, equidistant from my spot.  I'm actually quite happy with the 7.1 setup, and movies on the 4k, 65" curved are pretty awesome.  I made the tweaks above last night and spread the soundstage and added a little depth.  I also agree that the room correction should be minimal if your setup is good.
    wisciman99's avatar
    wisciman99 OP
    75 posts
     
    Your plethora of eclectic species of speakers is going to be a challenge to get it to sound "right". If you go Martin Logan, get all ML. Klipsch, all Klipsch. KEF, all KEF.  

    Considering the fact that your front soundstage is ML, try to find the matching surrounds if possible.  

    Also, with that Klipsch 10" sub, you will be longing for more really quickly.
    Hey Bill.  I agree with your assessment. I am working toward adding some of the ML hybrids as the front mains, and moving the Motion 20's to the mid surround eventually.  At that point, I will decide if the Klipsch need to go.  So far, I am quite happy with those (and the rest for that matter).  It's a matter of pacing my build, unfortunately, I tell my wife, 'millionaire John will have this amp, or these speakers' LOL.  All in due time.  So you're thinking the speakers are the weak link then?
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