Michael Green,
Thanks for your post. It does bring new questions and clarifies some of the things.
First, as it was addressed to me I will put a disclaimer for myself, I am not on either side of this thread. I am more of a curious spectator, even if it labels me as a time-waster for you. I am a non-tweaker, non-tuner, music-in-the-background most of the time, etc., but do not discard me quite yet. I have minimal knowledge, and no formal education, about electronics including capacitors. I have more knowledge and more formal education about some other topics that are not within the scope of Audiogon.
"No one I know, including myself in this, has ever said they can’t hear the difference between the sounds of capacitors. If someone claims to be a HEA audiophile and makes these types of claims, there’s no point for someone like me to talk to them. Do you honestly think I should be spending my time talking to them?"
It depends on how much time you have, how much enthusiasm, and your personality would matter, too. Most of the people have not had an opportunity to hear the same equipment with different capacitors. They have no time or skills for experimenting with it. To those more suspicious ones it seems like a bogus claim, sort of a placebo, rather than real effect, and they would like more explanation why that would happen before they "waste" their time and try for themselves. Probably smaller group (that I belong to) would take it at face value, acknowledging they have never had an experience that would prove or disprove claims about different-sounding capacitors. They will appreciate the opportunity if it comes along, but will not actively pursue it or dismiss the claim as entirely fabricated. They are happy knowing there is some opinion/experience out there. For them, it is a cumbersome idea that may work. Dismissing both of these groups as time-wasters may be economical/efficient for you personally, but does not seem fair to them. There is also a true disadvantage to it. Surrounding yourself with only the people who see/hear things your way may be a dead end of progress that you are, I believe, still striving for. Considering thoughts and views of someone not completely aligned with yours may open up new avenues. Tweak them in some way. Not everyone out here who questions you is out to get you and prove you are a fake. Some are, but many are not. Time is one big constraint and I have been surprised how much time people on this thread, you included, have been able to put aside for this purpose. As that friend of yours said, maybe most are retired. Time is a big constraint when it comes to you debating what is clear to you and not to someone else. However, it is also a constraint for those who cannot "do" all the things as suggested.
"But if they believe there are no sonic differences it’s unproductive for them to be talking to me or I them."
This may be one view that I could agree with. If someone just does not want to accept the possibility that differences may exist, it is a lost battle for both. This thread is full of posts claiming "does" or "does not", but there are posts in the middle, too. Those are from curious ones with no experience. Again, most of the people cannot afford time, skill, or money to perform "doing" just for the sake of trying. They would like to be informed how believable the claim is first.
"I’m honestly not interested in talking to the guy who isn’t sure it works, when I have thousands of guys to talk to who are actually tuning."
That is very fair to admit, but also closes you in the bubble of some sorts. It depends on your ultimate goal if that is the ideal way to approach this issue. If it is about you sharing your experience and knowledge, or sustaining your business within limited hours of the day that you have, it is almost the only way you can do it. As you say, there is enough people out there who share same passion. However, that approach is not promoting ideas you believe in. It leaves those who would like to know more about it ousted from the possibility. You may not have time or system to expand so you may be fine with that, but in a greater scheme of things, it becomes a circle, not a broadening/sharing/improving knowledge and reach.
If you tell me glupson that you aren’t sure if tuning works, what’s wrong with me saying "come back to me when you know it does and we can tune together"?
Well, that one we would have to disagree on as we may have different approaches to things because of who knows what, including personalities. Someone could say that it is wrong as you dismiss the person just because she/he is not sure about something. One thing is "tuning is crap and you are full of garbage" and that leads to nowhere. Another thing is "I am not sure if and how it works, I have never heard it". Many people would be interested in results, but where are they going to hear it first? At least to find some information that does not seem out-of-this-world? Those people get shut out of tuning. I am not implying you could or should be a guru saving them, but just dismissing them as not being worthy of talking to is also doing nobody a favor.
Why would someone who doesn’t "do" even post on a thread talking about doing?
That is simple. Some post just to kill time and have some interaction with other people. Others peep in, get interested, ask questions, diversify their thoughts and views in the process, and are happy they did. I, for one, am that kind. I doubt that such an approach would be unwelcome in most of discussions in any other field. In fact, such visitors are often warmly welcomed. It is fairly easy to explain something to an expert, but try explaining it to someone who is not that knowledgeable.
"I’m never going to convince you or amg or prof or whoever."
Here we have three different approaches. I know nothing about prof who became the loudest voice in this written communication. I disagreed with him on some of the approaches he has had, including not giving up when it was obvious that two of you were on two lines that will never meet. However, his questions are clearly based on the current state of research methodology. His questions are straight from the handbook for a reviewer at some specialized scientific publication. I am talking about questions about tuning results etc., not about your personality or presentation. The questions he asked would be nothing special in today's science. Anyone would be expecting them while still writing their first sentence. Now, some of that may be what I disagree with, but that is how it goes out there these days and prof decided to follow that well-established and accepted path.
As for me, I abstained from arguing about results of tuning while keeping mind open that it might work and that I may one day hear it. In fact, I suggested that those who talked badly about the speakers you build just based on their description (something with white vans, I am not sure about details anymore) wait and go and hear them before dismissing them as bad. I thought that they did not separate their own annoyance by you (a person) from something inanimate that you are connected to.
Someone says "oh I’ve done that and didn’t hear a difference", well why talk to me about it then?
It is another simple one. The person wants to discuss why two of you, doing the same thing, came to different conclusion. If you are right, she/he should have heard a difference and vice versa. If there is a difference between your results, there may be something else at play and refusing to discuss it will not better anything. It will make two circles spinning close to each other, but still alone and closed. There may be a hundred reasons for someone not to hear what you hear. From haircut to broken equipment. It helps to try and narrow it down. It brings progress to the hobby/business that both of you cherish. Little incremental moves that, after a while, make a visible progress. What is wrong with that?
By the way, in one of my recent posts I mentioned that you are the biggest talker on this thread. That was a compliment. I am not sure why your original post seems to deem "talkers" as some less-worthy crowd. It is not easy to be a good talker. Most of your posts are written quite well, despite someone agreeing or disagreeing with the content. Sure, someone may say that you evade etc., but you do it well nevertheless.
I will look for grannyring's post about OP. I am curious what is there.
On a different note, I did ask recently what it is about you that ignites so many people, call it rubs them the wrong way. I have a feeling it is not just the content of the discussion as responses, at least to me, seem to be out of proportion. Just your existence on this thread, as anonymous and ultimately unimportant for the world that it is, brings some combative tendencies out. Do you have any idea what it is? Does it happen to you in real life? It may have nothing to do with audio topics, but I noticed it over the days so I thought I might ask.
