Pre amps cost vs. value ... what I discovered last month.


Greetings all.

I’m a mastering engineer. www.magicgardenmastering.com . We use Acoustic Zen balanced cabling, highly modified Cary 211 FE tube amps, Bricasti M1 SE DAs and Joachim Gerhard’s Allegra speakers. TORUS balanced power comes 220 from the street. The room is excellent, and you would love to hear it.

For 15 years the pre amp/router was a Crane Song Avocet. I paid around $1800 for it.

Recently decided to try a couple of audiophile products in the pre amp stage and was shocked and saddened how bad they were. Yes, the studio designed Avocet has a relay click for each 1db step, and yes it has a rack mounted 2U body with a corded remote, but it’s clear folks are really getting taken to the cleaners on pre amps. The older and highly regarded Boulder 1010 (used price $5500), was just terrible, truly terrible. The new and fully broken in BAT vk-43SE (demo price $7500) was much better, but still had a cloudy tone as compared to the class A Avocet. Not sure if that’s the cap or the transformer, but it made everything less clear and more generic, more distant from the music.

That’s all. Happy listening.
128x128brianlucey
@antinn the Sonics Allegra speakers (older birch not the newer and better Canalis Allegra in bamboo with better parts) were actually only $5000 used, although I am currently having my spare pair rebuilt internally for more money than they were new. Every part in the crossover and every wire in the box new, tip top parts ... Jeff @ Soniccraft in Texas doing the Xovers in an external box (easy to ship to him to tweak, holds larger caps) with a low end and a mid/high input post. Basically upgrading the Xover while ALSO matching it to the amps that he previously upgraded as well. The Avocet’s designer Dave Hill agrees with you that there is "different" but not "better" so I am staying as is on the pre for now. It has feature and familiarity that make any changes sideways not worth the cost to practicality. Analog VU meters for example, follow my input source selection, and VUs are still better than digital meters for overall volume/RMS.
@audiorusty I appreciate the kind words. Have been told I have a unique way of speaking about these things, which some people like, some don’t. I am daily working in the connection and elevation business. Taking approved mixes to other levels of awesomeness. That’s what music does, connects an artist with a listener and connects listeners to each other in the live moment. This elevates us. Joy. That’s the game. Not feeling alone. Music is about connection and elevation. There is no perfect human, perfect music or perfect system. Perfection is actually a fear-based mindset, built on proving things to others and external validation and fear of not being good enough, not measuring up. We all struggle with it, but overall fear is not a good way to live. Fear is a very bad idea when it comes to music, makes thing ignorable, unoriginal and worse. One of my clients The Black Keys, on "Brothers" 2010 intentionally left some imperfections in the performances in order to connect better. That was a fearless and intelligent decision. Vocal performances today always deal with this line in the sand, so does every other stage in production with the modern tools available. Not all styles have so much room to play with imperfections but in this era everything from pitch to time to tone can be perfected and it can all goo way too far, losing the humanity that connects us to an artist. This balance is always style dependent and about this one release, this one moment in time for the artist and their relationship with the market and their audience (current audience and potential audience)
@brhatten given my room acoustics and overall playback system, I have never heard a better room in a studio or home. When I go to the shows I’m always shocked how terrible everything sounds in those rooms, with a few exceptions per show that are almost good. My speakers are VERY dynamic and that’s something I don’t hear in most speakers, for example. What I listen for in good or bad rooms is the integrity of the music coming through. That’s translation. My room is tuned to my ear, so it’s the best, to me.  When it comes to building a home listening room I'm always sad to see people chasing things based on concept and not their own relationship to the room.  We only need to upgrade the one thing that is bothering us.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it !   Enjoy it.
@astewart8944 what exactly did I say on SR that got you excited? That’s a topic I’m passionate about. My interest is in respecting the integrity of the masters that have been approved by the entire creative team. All this post processing of masters is disrespectful, profit driven, and built on using fear of missing out to engender sales. MQA for example, all my work is being batch processed for sale as "Master Quality Authenticated". It’s neither master quality nor authenticated. Cynical marketing manipulation. Not happy at all with that business model.
Thanks all for the good banter. I like online friends in agreement or in argument while I work, keeps me in a good place.
PS, it seems like we have moved into the "anything goes" portion of the thread, so if anyone wants to banter re: anything related to mastering, I'm game
I recently bought a very inexpensive tube preamp... 154$ new... to use until my Mcintosh pre showed up and honestly just for some cheap fun and experimenting with tube rolling etc. I have been a working musician for more years than I want to admit and have always used very high quality hand built tube amps to gig with so hence the cheapo pre for fun... I replaced all tube with nos ax7’s and a nos rectifier tube also... total tube cost 35$. I had the ax7’s.

  The Mac shows up and she is amazing.  Plug in the tube pre... VERY VERY close! Very. With a black curtain test I would be unsure which was which 100% of the time. Now... the big difference is in the image and staging. Not much but it is there. Again I couldn’t do it 100% of the time. I have since run my CD player into the tube pre and it was great. Really warmed things up. I dont use it much but it was a great lesson... and yes the Chinese can make some really nice gear.

  
@soundsrealaudio Bricasti is close to releasing a 2 IN and 1 OUT pre amp.  Balanced.
@charles1dad  um, about your comment that others "have not succumbed to this recording technique"
Firstly, I didn’t say large DR sounds dull, or bad, I said it sounds dated and like an older era of music. Not current.

Secondly, I said that mastering is a service job. We are not here to put the genie back in the bottle. "Make it louder" has been around since vinyl, there was simply a physical limit to what was possible. In 2018 I find most records I print are approved where I would like them to be, and the client has the say. Again, if you want a list of my records where there is lower DR and it sounds great I can provide. DR measurement, like all measurement is a bit of a mythical standard of goodness. Each record is uniquely worked, we have to look at the whole.
Yes, some clients push me past sanity and I can say something if it would matter, and sometimes I do. 99% on deaf ears. Fear and ambition are the driving force in these cases. Can’t stop humans from that.