Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio

jf47t,


It would not mean that all the others are misrepresenting, at all. In fact, changing anything in the system (from CD to composition of the air in the listening environment) could potentially have some effect on the perception of sound for the listener. After all, that is the purpose of tweaking/tuning. Altering what was initially heard. It still stands that the drummer would be the only one to know if he really hit something in a certain way that we imagine, after a heavily-modified process, as him changing angles of sticks to the drum or whatever else. There is nothing wrong with listeners adjusting sound to their liking, why wouldn't they enjoy even more. The simplest, for the end-user, way of adjusting is probably tone controls on an amplifier but there are many many more ways, including whatever kind of wood is used somewhere in the system.


Maybe one could say that virtually every system is misrepresenting (ears do not represent, though, they are a receptive link in the chain).


Remember how the room got bigger when you did something? It sounded more interesting/pleasing to you, at least that is how it read. Well, room was only one size originally. It has not changed since 1990 when the CD was recorded. Being able to manipulate the perception of the size of the room is misrepresenting the real room. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not a true representation of how big the room was during the recording, or what was adjusted during the mixing/mastering/some other process shortly afterwards. Many pieces of electronic equipment have modes "jazz club", "church", "stadium" which are aiming exactly for the same effect of changing listener's perception of the original room size. Of course, they may change other things in the process and not be acceptable to "audiophile" crowd, but they are aiming to be a simple and convenient solution for those listeners who would like the effect, but have no knowledge or time to do what you did by placing different things in different positions of your listening room. Both achieve similar result by different means. I would speculate that one does it conveniently while the other one does it less conveniently but without affecting other parameters. At the same time, both may misrepresent the size of the real room which is the only correct size.


What sound level (dB) do you listen to Hindu Love Gods at? I feel it needs a little bit louder setting, but am curious at what level do you feel you gain the best results.

grannyring,


I would second your question about modifications of the Pioneer receiver. In fact, I already got curious about it in my earlier post. I do not doubt it can be done, but it would be great to know what made the difference.



Addendum: I would also think that knowing the exact model of Pioneer receiver would be interesting to those who are more adept with technical aspect of its build.

I’ve definitely had enough of this nonsense!
Have fun debating wire costing thousands of quid a half-meter! I’m gone from this particular thread. :-)
Whoa! Dude, you’re on the wrong thread. You need to go over to one of the Cable threads and threaten to leave.

Jf47t,

You posted:

“Picture having a system from start to finish without any enclosed chassis? I'm not just talking about the playback part but all the way from the microphone forward. He started with the tunable studio (live room), control room, mastering room, in studio playback room all tunable. All the equipment was without their chassis, or custom built without chassis from the microphones on. No cable barrels no plugs every stage was either hardwired or clipped. No cover even on the mixers.”


First you say “imagine” then state “he started with” so which is it?

Does this recording studio exist? Does it have a physical address?

Can we book studio time in order to see and hear what it is you are attempting to tell us?


You posted:

“No cable barrels, no plugs”


I am assuming you are talking about the XLR, TRS and RCA mic and signal cables but are we also talking Alternating Current power cable plugs as in hardwired to the wall feeds? Are the steel covers then removed from the primary AC panels too?

Are you stating all the equipment covers have been removed from the total electronics package consisting of amps, compressors, all outboard digital effects, power supplies, microphones and the mixers too?

In closing, 

We would really enjoy seeing pictures of this studio to determine if in fact it does exist and is not imaginary or imaginarily engineered so do you have any?

Robert

These are all questions about audio and application so I am hoping this post remains void of a couple people filing complaint reports hence leading to the removal of this post. People want to know more...