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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
jf47t
116 posts
 

"So with different structures which vary in content by the hour and the day you will go mad wishing for what you had previous. When was that wonderful adjustment made to each block..you forgot didn’t you."

Tom, again like with Robert, it’s unfortunate you have had problems tuning. On TuneLand we read about the different listeners’ learning curves and how they end up with their choices of tuning tools from very simple to tune all the way to extremely advanced tuning.

Also if I may many who have read this thread have been visiting TuneLand looking at the pictures asked for here, they’re not hard to find. MG respects that the line between information and promotion is a fine one but MG also realizes how the trolling has worked on this and other threads and is not about crossing that line. On this thread you see one side asking for pictures or information and shortly after you see the trolling trap set that MG is using this thread to promote. It’s a common internet trolling tactic being used by some of the posters here. TuneLand the forum supplies the answers to any of these questions and has since 2004. You can look on the archives for some of the show & tell or visit the newer forum that goes back to 2008 but still has archived pictures on it.

prof
3,479 posts
 

It’s interesting that MG and his follower can continually accuse people of being "trolls" in this thread. They use the term "troll" to avoid interacting with any challenging viewpoint. They just toss the term around as an insult in an evasive manner and never show how it is actually warranted. Let alone the accusation of "faking" that MANY here have been asking them to clarify or back up, and which they continually evade.

Yet, when I break down exactly why MG’s posts here actually fit the classic definition of trolling...e.g. the ^^^^above type of behaviour....THAT post gets removed.

Mods, would you like to explain this apparent double standard, please? 

Who else but Michael Green and his follower have actually explicitly expressed pleasure, glee, at the way this thread has turned out?  That it turned out as MG planned.  "Genius" his follower calls it.   Does that not tell you anything?


theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
We also have a resulting tuning method though when implemented,  it is stasis by material, shape and understanding of energy flow and direction. The only change that may occurr is when we increase our understanding of shaped materials and offer them to the public to install if they wish. Tom

prof
3,479 posts
 




jf47t,

1. If you are honest.

And

2. If the techniques you and MG espouse are sound.

Then nothing should concern as being a "trap." If you have answers, you just give the answers. One only worries about a "trap" if one has something to hide, or if you aren’t confident in what you are presenting.

Note when MG asked me a question about capacitors, even though it was clearly a disingenuous set up to try to find a way to dismiss me, I immediately answered. No problem. There’s no "trap" if you just answer something honestly to your ability.

And of course, MG did indeed just go on to keep ignoring my questions, even after I answered his.






glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

I may be a troll, or I may not, as that term seems to be applied very liberally. I do not understand why we would be denied pictures of something described in details on this thread, but so be it. However, given that Pioneer receiver was mentioned, too and at least three people showed interest in learning about it, it should not take much to mention what was done to it and what model it is.

Everyone pushes their ideas on Audiogon forums and some subtly, or less subtly, even advertise their products. That may, if not exaggerated, be helpful to participants as they learn about what is mentioned. However, using a thread on one website to steer people to another website could be described as poaching. It may not be illegal, but is surely not a gentlemanly activity. Not to mention, asking participants from this particular thread to migrate to Tuneland seems self-destructive. They have had very firm and logical questions that would shake much stronger theoreticians than those who provided answers here. Do you really want a sanctuary like Tuneland to become a sad sight defending itself only by "they are all trolls, they are all trolls"? Most of the people on this thread have nothing against very existence of Tuneland and, from what it seems, they have shown quite a courtesy not to infiltrate there.
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