2. speakers
  3. 135891-111507

Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

I really love the idea of the Vandersteen Subs where they are connected with the mains via extra speaker cable off right and left channels off the main amplifier, which is supposed to provide better bass transition from the mains while keeping the signature from the main amplifier. My question is with Vandersteen coming out with the SUB THREE and the price going significantly higher, I was wondering if there are other subs for less that you could integrate in the same way. (Most subs seem to rely on the line level input which is just a sub-woofer RCA going from the pre-amp to the amp on the sub). Can this same Vandersteen set-up be achieved with other subs?
I picked Rythmik since they are known (in the home theater community anyway) for being one of the best bang for the buck subs and the most "musical" of the bunch. (between Hsu, SVS, PSA).
And could I possibly achieve even greater sub-woofer nirvana since I could get an 18" for around $1500? Vandies only have 3 eight inchers.

I am a Vandersteen fanboy and I would like to support RV whenever I can, but don’t know much about my other sub-woofer options so looking for some feedback. Doesn’t even have to be related to Rythmik necessarily. If you know of other subs that can integrate the same way I want to know about it!

Thanks
bstatmeister
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
Even without talking about the brand you want to use, a subwoofer is still a difficult tool to set up. You need different parameters to adjust. 

All the subwoofers with an inbuild roomacoustic system are not flawless. In  the past we did not even had any roomacoustic adjustments. Based on my expeirence and feeling for acoustics I was able to creat a level in integration none of my collegues ( audio shop) could create.

But, even this not flawless. At the end you want and need the highest level in integration. With our own developed Statement Audio Pro-measurement we can create a level wat is both superior tot the old 'analogue' way amd the subwoofers with an inbuild acoustic system.

There is only one way to get it right and that is a roomcorrection system what measures the loudspeakers and subwoofer at the same time. Rhe level we reached was what I had in my head and mind 10 years ago.

I thought this would never be possible to create. But now in 2018 we reached a stunning level in integration and even with the new Audioquest Storm cables we can reveal details of a recording which are gone without the use of the subwoofer, S.A.P.-measurment and the Audioquest new powercables.

The other thing we created is what I call a 3D matrix. This is feeling the low energy of the loudspeaker at different places in the room depending where it is on the recording.

At the end of 2017 we were able to bring the energie even in height and depth. But the latest S.A.P-measurement and Audioquest new Storm cables created a new level in integration and precision.

The first time I demoed it to my collegue he started to shake with his head. Like this is not possible what I hear. But I switched the subwoofer on and off so it became clear how huge the difference is between the subwoofer on and off.

This demo was in stereo. We seldom sell stereo these days without the use of a subwoofer. Due to the fact that we can create a level in realism and emotion what without a suboofer is not possible. Even when you would use the biggest loudspeakers in the world.


ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
To the good people on this thread, I have been very happy with the 11 band eq Richard uses in my Quatro's as it really fixed the problems I was having.  Very very happy with the sound that I'm getting in a very difficult room.  I look forward to fixing up some of the room acoustics in the next few months hopefully.  

Those 9's are sick for sure. Tomic, I can't wait for your's to get installed.  LOL.....I'm going to audition his new amps when they are ready and figure out if it's worth upgrading, lol....So many cool toys to play with now.
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
"Even without talking about the brand you want to use, a subwoofer is still a difficult tool to set up. You need different parameters to adjust. "

Hello bo1972,
     I agree with the concept of subwoofers  needing to be well integrated with the main speakers to produce a more realistic and 'in the room'  illusion on recorded musical content. 
     I disagree, however, that a subwoofer is a difficult tool to setup, especially if you're goal is just good bass response at a specific listening position 'sweet spot'. 
     As I detailed in my earlier posts on this thread,  this is a relatively simple process that is not dependent on the sub brand, cables or type/brand of main speakers.  There's also no need for bass room  treatments,  equalization, different parameters to adjust or room correction software and hardware of any sort.
     As long as they're properly positioned in the room, 2 subs will provide better bass response than 1 and 3 subs will outperform 2. 
     4 subs properly positioned will provide state of the art bass response in almost any room, again without any room treatments, equalization, room correction and parameters to adjust. 
      The bass will be very good virtually throughout the entire room. very well integrated, detailed and have an effortless quality that will also definitely provide what you call a 3D matrix, "the feeling that the low energy of the loudspeaker at different places in the room depending where it is on the recording".  The 4 subs can be of any brand and do not need to be 4 identical subs.
     The above is not my opinion but a paraphrasing of the scientific results published as White Papers and detailed by Acoustic engineers  Earl Geddes and Floyd O'Toole.  
      If you're still skeptical as I was initially, I'd suggest trying this scientifically proven and independently verified method for yourself.
      The only downside is the loss of sales on bass room treatments, equalizers, room correction hardware/software and magical cabling by sellers.

Tim
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
There are a few ways to get what you want for bass.  Nothing is difficult in set up, but it will take time to get it right no matter what you have.  Integrating a sub can be difficult.  I personally do like EQ (analog) as it smoothed out the bass performance in my room GREATLY.  It made a huge difference.  I also like the Vandy subs because they take on the sound signature of any amp that they are crossed over with.  I don't know of any other subs that do that and it make a nice difference to my ears.  

I read so many talking about an array of 4 subs.  that sure can help, but  2 subs are already a big advantage over one and 4 gives flatter response IF the sub has no other way to EQ the problems remaining.  2 quality subs with room EQ will trump most 4 sub systems.  We are also talking a more wife friendly room (I too like a cleaner looking room now days).  Another problem never mentioned is when the subs have drivers pointing into the listening space or ports the sidebands as these have a negative impact on imaging and sound stage.  Again, this is something that is never discussed, but very real.  


wolf_garcia
6,726 posts
 
REL subs also "take on the sound signature of any amp that they are crossed over with" by utilizing the amp's output with their recommended "High Level" input. REL should market some sort of universal "longbow" wireless gizmo that would work with older RELs like mine that would allow more than 2 RELs in a system maybe...I say 2 because when I put the REL cables on the binding posts I don't want to squeeze more than 2 sets of REL specific wiring on the posts (using spades together with bananas for the main speakers...a crowd but manageable), or combine wires together to get that signal. Wishful thinking, or it's out there and I don't know it.
More to discover