Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

" Even when a stand up bass is located left in the soundstage, the speakers make the sound come from that position perfectly even though the sub is in the right corner."


Hello mr_m,

     I find this to be is a very interesting phenomena of human hearing that I think is important to realize when we're setting up our systems for optimum bass response in our rooms..
     When I first installed my  Audio Kinesis Debra system, I was concerned how bass emanating from 4 subs arrayed throughout my room would affect my system's sound stage illusion normally spreading from wall to wall and sometimes wider while varying in how many seemingly feet in depth depending on the quality of the recording. 
     These 4 subs are run in mono and I was wondering if I'd still be able to perceive bass instruments as being located properly and precisely within this sound stage illusion.  This very life-like illusion on good recordings is something I really enjoy and didn't want to lose.
     Fortunately, the sound stage illusion was even more palpable and life-like with the Debra in place.  The locations and spacing of Instruments and vocalists within the sound stage illusion were only enhanced.  Even though the bass is in mono and the bass sound waves are coming from 2 subs along the front 16' wall and one along each of the 23' long side walls (about 4' in from the back 16' back wall with my listening seat centered on this back wall),  I always perceive the bass as coming from the proper position within the sound stage illusion at the front of my room on both music and ht.  I  perceive no bass emanating from the 2 subs closest to my seat, just from instruments and voices within the sound stage illusion.   
      I'm very pleased with this bass response and illusion but it is odd how we humans perceive sound; a combination of our ears receiving the sound waves and our brains processing them. 
     I think this affect should be considered as a factor in room acoustics when assembling a home audio system.  I believe this phenomena can be explained by the fact that bass sounds are rarely just bass frequencies and typically have harmonics exist that are at above bass frequencies.  Humans are poor at identifying the location of low frequencies but much better at doing so as the frequencies rise into the mid-range and treble range. 
     I think the scientific explanation is that the higher frequency harmonics of bass sounds allow our brains to better place the source of bass sounds/instruments in the sound stage illusion.  I realize this may be an oversimplification and the actual ear and brain relationship is likely much more complex, but I think it adequately describes the process.

Tim  

Even without talking about the brand you want to use, a subwoofer is still a difficult tool to set up. You need different parameters to adjust. 

All the subwoofers with an inbuild roomacoustic system are not flawless. In  the past we did not even had any roomacoustic adjustments. Based on my expeirence and feeling for acoustics I was able to creat a level in integration none of my collegues ( audio shop) could create.

But, even this not flawless. At the end you want and need the highest level in integration. With our own developed Statement Audio Pro-measurement we can create a level wat is both superior tot the old 'analogue' way amd the subwoofers with an inbuild acoustic system.

There is only one way to get it right and that is a roomcorrection system what measures the loudspeakers and subwoofer at the same time. Rhe level we reached was what I had in my head and mind 10 years ago.

I thought this would never be possible to create. But now in 2018 we reached a stunning level in integration and even with the new Audioquest Storm cables we can reveal details of a recording which are gone without the use of the subwoofer, S.A.P.-measurment and the Audioquest new powercables.

The other thing we created is what I call a 3D matrix. This is feeling the low energy of the loudspeaker at different places in the room depending where it is on the recording.

At the end of 2017 we were able to bring the energie even in height and depth. But the latest S.A.P-measurement and Audioquest new Storm cables created a new level in integration and precision.

The first time I demoed it to my collegue he started to shake with his head. Like this is not possible what I hear. But I switched the subwoofer on and off so it became clear how huge the difference is between the subwoofer on and off.

This demo was in stereo. We seldom sell stereo these days without the use of a subwoofer. Due to the fact that we can create a level in realism and emotion what without a suboofer is not possible. Even when you would use the biggest loudspeakers in the world.

To the good people on this thread, I have been very happy with the 11 band eq Richard uses in my Quatro's as it really fixed the problems I was having.  Very very happy with the sound that I'm getting in a very difficult room.  I look forward to fixing up some of the room acoustics in the next few months hopefully.  

Those 9's are sick for sure. Tomic, I can't wait for your's to get installed.  LOL.....I'm going to audition his new amps when they are ready and figure out if it's worth upgrading, lol....So many cool toys to play with now.

There are a few ways to get what you want for bass.  Nothing is difficult in set up, but it will take time to get it right no matter what you have.  Integrating a sub can be difficult.  I personally do like EQ (analog) as it smoothed out the bass performance in my room GREATLY.  It made a huge difference.  I also like the Vandy subs because they take on the sound signature of any amp that they are crossed over with.  I don't know of any other subs that do that and it make a nice difference to my ears.  

I read so many talking about an array of 4 subs.  that sure can help, but  2 subs are already a big advantage over one and 4 gives flatter response IF the sub has no other way to EQ the problems remaining.  2 quality subs with room EQ will trump most 4 sub systems.  We are also talking a more wife friendly room (I too like a cleaner looking room now days).  Another problem never mentioned is when the subs have drivers pointing into the listening space or ports the sidebands as these have a negative impact on imaging and sound stage.  Again, this is something that is never discussed, but very real.