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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Prof

He’s then asked reasonable questions such as:

1. What measurements can you present to support your claim there are changes between a tied and untied capacitor?

2. How do you relate those measurements to audibility?

3. How did you test this hypothesis while controlling for variables like imagination and bias?

Then the OP runs away from those questions. And has an underling take his place in continually avoiding any tough questions, supplying instead constant over-the-top praise of the OP.

Leaving us to question the OP’s actual commitment to empiricism and "walking."

>>>>All of which makes no sense because empirical implies either measurement or observation. Duh! So this whole Strawman argument is just another troll. Prof hasn’t done his homework, even his Uber Skeptic’s arguments are flawed. It’s SO obvious. Demands for proof and measurements are the last resort of the dedicated pseudo skeptic. 😡

I tell you I can visualize it all
This couldn't be a dream for too real it all seems
But it was just my imagination once again runnin' way with me
Tell you it was just my imagination runnin' away with me
glupson
7,842 posts
 
kosst_amojan,

It is true that it is hard to know if something is snake oil, or not, before hearing it yourself or, at least, from someone you feel you can trust. Different issue is why is it so important to be in a category of "audiophile" or "walker". So far, in over a thousand posts, we have not agreed, or even attempted to clarify, what "talking", "walking", "faking", "audiophile" is for the purpose of this thread. I tried asking a few times with no response so I started considering those few words a "snake oil" of their own kind. Maybe my questions have not been read or considered worth answering, but they are the basis for discussing a topic as vague as the title of this thread.

As for the above question about a "talker" having to respond to questions, it is due to an open nature of the forum. It should be acceptable as long as it does not cross the line of polite behavior and insults we too often read here.

cleeds
6,272 posts
 
jf47t

I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them.

Perhaps you mentioned it earlier and I missed it. Would you please tell us what forum that is?
cleeds
6,272 posts
 
kosst_amojan
Why's there this sideways expectation that folks aren't legit audiophiles unless they indulge in all the snake oil?
There is no such expectation.
prof
3,534 posts
 
jf47t,

Posting the OP yet again!

I wonder what you think you possibly gain by reposting the OP like a brainwashed bot who can only Praise The Guru and mindlessly repeat His Words? That MG is apparently looking over your shoulder on all this stuff speaks quite a lot to the type of Followers He is looking for and the level of discourse one will find in His Method.


I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid,

......

why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks.


That was MG’s "talk."

Yet when asked to "walk" and show his claims would hold up to the scrutiny one would find in "empirical testing labs" and among "science folk," ....MG suddenly evades, evades and then vanishes.

It was just talk.


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