"The 9’s are very special subs in their CF build to their ability to fill large spaces etc... The new Sub 3’s are affordable and have built in EQ as we spoke about earlier. Set up properly, they will smooth out the bass just as good as a swarm or any of the subs.
What the swarm is, can be done with any sub. I personally would rather just get two great subs rather than 4 subs that may or may not sound as good. Just because a sub can be purchased for half of the cost of another one doesn’t mean it will sound nearly as good as the other one.
I have a close audio buddy who auditioned the AK swarm vs many other subs and went with the Vandy 2’s. It’s always a personal choice as we know. Back to listening."
ctsooner,
Based on your comments on this thread, it’s obvious your knowledge of the latest and best scientifically proven methods of producing excellent in-room bass response, and the critical factors involved, is seriously lacking.
You’re failing, or maybe just refusing, to understand that there are currently scientifically proven methods, based on years of research and experimentation by 2 leading acoustics engineers Dr. Earl Geddes and Dr. Floyd O’Toole, that provide sota bass performance in virtually any room.
These methods began as mere theories that require well designed scientific experiments for the theory to be proven as valid. Each scientist is further required to publish a White Paper that proposes the theory, describes the experiment designed to prove or disprove it and the details of the results.
If the theory is proven valid via the experimentation, the next hurdle for each scientist is peer review; at which a panel of fellow acoustic engineer scientists are given an oral and written presentation by the White Paper’s author for the purposes of evaluating, thoroughly understanding and thoroughly questioning it.
Even if the panel ultimately decides to consider the theory as a new empirical fact, the original results of the experiments the scientists performed to prove the theory must be able to be consistently and independently duplicated with the same results for the theory to continue to be considered empirically true and valid.
Okay, I think you now get the gist of how an acoustics theory becomes an accepted fact.
But what theory from Geddes and O’Toole was proven valid via the above process?
The theory stated: Bass frequency response will improve in any given commercial or residential room as the number of devices reproducing the bass sound waves (subs) is increased in that room. The engineers understood that low bass sound waves are extremely long and will continue to bounce/reflect off all room barrier surfaces (especially parallel surfaces such as 2 walls or floor and ceiling) until they run out of energy in all rooms that have room dimensions that are not as long as the low bass sound waves themselves: a 40 Hz sound wave is 28 ft. long and a 20 Hz wave is 56.5 ft. long.
As these long bass sound waves are launched into the room along with subsequent ones, they travel on mathematically predictable paths until they predictably either crash into one another , creating a bass de-emphasis or ’null’, or they merge and reinforce one another, creating a bass over-emphasis or ’peak’.
Of course, this also happens with the much shorter midrange and treble sound waves but these cancellations and reinforcements are distributed throughout the room and typically perceived as adding an ’’airy’ or ’liveness’ quality to the musical sound in the room.
However, with the much longer, low-frequency waves, the cancellations and reinforcements are localized to specific areas in the room. The result is that the bass response of the room is noticeably uneven at certain frequencies—there will be too much bass at a particular frequency in some spots in the room, and not enough at others.
I believe the above leads to the gist of what you’re failing, or refusing, to grasp; that the Geddes and O’toole developed distributed bass array system (AK Swarm and Debra bass system) is a scientifically proven method for attaining sota bass response in virtually any room.
Comments of yours such as "I personally would rather just get two great subs rather than 4 subs that may or may not sound as good" makes it clear to me that you do not realize the significant in-room bass response improvement levels achieved through the use of a 4 sub distributed bass array system when compared to a 2 sub system, no matter how large, expensive, the brand or the competency of the 2 subs.
The primary scientific reason for the fact that in-room bass response improves as the number of subs launching bass sound waves is increased in any given room is caused by the reduction of bass standing sound waves existing in the room. The research proves that bass standing waves are progressively reduced in any given room as the number of subs is increased from 1 up to the experiment’s projected limit of 3,000. Critically, however, the research also proved that the reduction in bass standing waves was most significant when increasing the number of subs from 1 to 4, with any subs added beyond 4 still decreasing bass standing waves but only at a smaller incremental amount.
Obviously, the scientists knew there was a practical limit to the number of subs your wife would allow you to place in her living room. Importantly, they told her to let you put 4 subs in the room since the data showed that 4 subs eliminated the vast majority of bass standing waves and thus provide their version a good balance between bass performance and just getting ridiculous and messing up her room.
Lastly, I just want to add that I respect Richard Vandersteen, his many audio contributions and his products. I have no intentions of denigrating him or his products.
I also agree with several of your other comments, such as "what the Swarm is, can be done with any sub" and "just because a sub can be purchased for half of the cost of another one doesn’t mean it will sound nearly as good as the other one" . In my opinion, both true statements that don’t require any qualification.
In fact, I have little doubt that a 4 sub distributed bass array system consisting of 4 Sub Nines, Threes or even the discontinued 2Ws would likely outperform the AK Swarm or Debra bass systems.
I didn’t address your other comment of " The new Sub 3’s are affordable and have built in EQ as we spoke about earlier. Set up properly, they will smooth out the bass just as good as a swarm or any of the subs". I think this comment just demonstrates again your failure, or maybe just your refusal, to understand that there are currently scientifically proven solutions for achieving sota in-room bass response, based on years of research and experimentation by 2 leading acoustics engineers Dr. Earl Geddes and Dr. Floyd O’Toole, and that any sort of existing digital or analog equalization has been proven to be completely incapable of duplicating.
I could elaborate but I’ll just leave it at that for now.
Gotta go,
Tim
