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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

tomcy6
Geoff, You are a "walker." I think that having discovered the beneficial effects of Mpingo discs, you would make some up in maple, spruce, Brazillian rosewood, etc. in different sizes and shapes. Why would ebony discs be the only wooden objects to have a beneficial effect on sound? The tuning possibilities are endless, or maybe not. Isn’t your curiosity piqued? This could be a whole new product line for you.

>>>>Actually the possibilities aren’t endless. And I didn’t say ebony was the only beneficial wood. Don’t put words in my mouth. Maybe you should go back and read what I said, Mr. Snooty Pants.
glupson
7,842 posts
 
No matter who feels they are right the only way to actually know is to "walk" (do).
Definitely true. However, a person can make the process more efficient by talking before, or even during, walking. Then there may be no sadness about a lifetime not being enough.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Glupson

MG is in the curing shop but I know he has an interest in building the thread on TuneLand with both words and pictures. I don't know how much time he is going to dedicate to the thread but I do know it will answer any questions of relevance asked here including ones like you've just asked. I will help him sort through the thread here. To answer the question about who is in the pictures.

http://positive-feedback.com/Issue23/green.htm

glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

Thanks,

Pictures are really interesting for someone with no previous exposure to such things. They may not make a person a convert, but they do add another dimension. Until now, it has all been fully talk. Not that pictures prove anything, but why would anyone doubt it anyway?
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

tomcy6
Geoff, You are a "walker." I think that having discovered the beneficial effects of Mpingo discs, you would make some up in maple, spruce, Brazillian rosewood, etc. in different sizes and shapes. Why would ebony discs be the only wooden objects to have a beneficial effect on sound? The tuning possibilities are endless, or maybe not. Isn’t your curiosity piqued?

>>>>Yes, my curiosity was piqued. Wasn’t yours?

I already outlined the logic behind wood, especially the highly resonant Mpingo wood. The Mpingo discs are not used as feet. Other parameters besides the type of wood are important. E.g., when wood is used for a top plate of an iso stand or a self it should be a minimum thickness to resist bending forces.  I also outlined my logic for choosing non-wood materials for coupling, I.e., extremely hard materials for grounding components and iso stands. The logic included ranking the best to worst materials for use as coupling cones, from NASA grade ceramics and diamonds to brass and carbon fiber and wood on the lower end of the hardness scale, corresponding to the best sound to worst sound. Perhaps you were daydreaming and missed it.
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