Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
Post removed 
Another summer rerun on a hot Monday night .

Quoting From the Lost Wages Harold News...

""Like with some others on this thread we haven't seen StarSound take components down to the basic signal passing bones. Robert saying he likes big transformers obviously tells us on this thread you have not tested the placement of transformers in relationship to other parts hosting the audio signal. If this is indeed the case there are literally thousands of empirical listeners who have gone further than you. The proof is something you do gentlemen, not something you talk about as if you have done. Walking guys, we're talking about walking.""

Really jf47t or Harold or whoever you are?
I would hope that many thousands have gone further than us as that guarantees HEA evolution where previously, located on another thread MG prefers to say HEA is dead.
In our meager defense to this statement containing a ton of bull manure,
Star Sound has experimented and sold to the public under the Harmonic Precision™ brand name forty chassis of a mono block amplifier. The circuit was designed by Steve Keiser (B&K fame) where every part was mechanically grounded to the chassis via Live-Vibe Technology™.
Likewise the Caravelle Loudspeaker project was sold for public consumption as well with all parts mounted via Live-Vibe protocols (Google it).
These were two case studies involving the longevity of parts as the developing technology and goal was to establish higher levels of product operational efficiency noting the reduction of heat as one of the positive takeaways.
We are a research and development company - not an amplifier or speaker manufacturer.
How many of those infinite chassis styled amps as seen in all those images did you guys sell?
The primary difference between your company jf47t or Howard or whoever you are is Star Sound prefers to rely on geometry, physics and material science and engineering to advance Live-Vibe Technology. The products are based on technology and not just experiments and more experiments and even more empirical experiments. You guys cannot define how your product functions in technical terminology. Too bad for you as empirical can only go so far.
Example: This product took us twenty years to bring to market where sales are expanding rapidly across the globe. This product is affixed to a musical instrument expands the sonic, increases stage presence and volume without affecting the character or signature of the instrument. Those accomplishments probably mean nothing to you guys but that’s OK. I would not expect you to comprehend our accomplishments as you primarily reside in the empirical world of experimentation.™
Please refer to the end pin and coupling disc located on the cello as our product description. These products are protected under US Patents.
http://toneacoustics.com/Video.php
Are we walking yet?
Again, jf47t, you do NOT define “basic signal” in your rants so we have no concept about passing bones, passing gas or any other jargon you continue to post in attempting to sully our company and reputation.
There is one difference HERE that I am sure the readership has witnessed by now and that is….
There were no complaints filed forcing the removal of your derogatory posts unlike those of thinner skinned individuals like you who continuously report posts when presented challenges by having them removed from the conversation.
""Robert and Tom saying your company has an absolute is the same as marginalizing your contributions to a variable subject. Or do you not think audio "is" a variable science?""
Show me where I ever stated “ABSOLUTE” - hint ↑↑↑↑.
You are again falsifying, assuming or unjustifiably attempting to sully our company without effect.
I cannot waste anymore time defending our company from slingers of mass such as yourself.
Audio reproduction is a science and art form.
Hire a real engineer and not one of those fictitious versions blessed with a silver tongue as a real engineer will help explain your products function and stop relying on the bearded wonder and photoshopped images pawning you into positions where you become the target of obvious stupidity.
Just our opinions of course and means nothing really… just talking.
Robert--Tom

the audiotweak
Just our opinions of course and means nothing really… just talking.
Robert--Tom

>>>I concur without comment.
audiopoint,

"GK is an excellent example of continuous bashing and demeaning the public yet all his posts appear to remain intact."
Yes and no. Yes to unacceptable behavior. No to all his posts being intact. Ok, they may appear to be, but I know at least one that was removed as I reported it.
"let’s set up a lab and test these claims together in real time for everyone to witness".
Oh, my, bold rarely equals wise. Heroes are those who were lucky not to be harmed in their rush.

I stand by my statement that Tuneland and this thread should stay separated.

We are back to empirical testing lab from some weeks ago? Let me try again, what other testing would it be in this case? And how do we design the lab? Who is "everyone to witness"? Let's not forget that results should be reproducible by others.

Back to my NAD amplifier, whoever wants to believe it, thank you. Those who do not want to believe I did it, our lives will continue regardless. I "walked" anyway. It was really not worth much. Not exactly a walk across the Waterloo field, more like a stroll to the corner grocery store.

I did claim that I heard no difference. It was a claim and it is as firm as they get. No softer than Michael Green's claims that taking covers off does make a difference. Therefore, it is the truth and that is it. Because I say so.

prof,

Asking for measurements opens another can of worms. Some people believe that everything can be expressed in numbers (measurements of some sort) while the others think it is not necessary. Remainder has no opinion, cannot care less, and are on the sidelines. I still think that Michael Green's biggest mistake was to try to come up with explanations of things instead of simply claiming that whatever he does seems to improve the sound and stopping at that. I took a little break from here, the weather got nicer and I dedicated myself to observing real masters of their art doing their art (soccer championship) instead of arguing about the meaning of word "claim". Thanks for participating in that instead of me. I would have never guessed that such a simple word could become a stumbling block.

In the meantime, I sent an e-mail to NAD hoping to reach some engineer. I know it will probably not be anyone who had anything to do with NAD C-350 amplifier, but maybe they have some opinion on removing the cover. I am curious what is their view of the sonic benefits of it. I will report back once they answer.