Amplifier ideas with KEF Reference 1


I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of KEF reference 1's for my 10'x14' office (currently LS50's). Current electronic setup is all PS Audio (bhk monoblocks, bhk  signature preamp, directstream dac). Incredible sound, zero complaints other than the fact that the monoblocks run hot. I'm getting cooked so the whole ps audio setup is listed for sale.... Although it just may end up at home for a future 2 channel setup!

So with that background, please share ideas for a high quality system that's cool running. Budget up to $15k. I'll add that I favor the warmer side of the spectrum. I'm a bass player and like tight, fast, deep bass..... Glorious mids, and smooth highs. Current ideas to match with the  KEF Reference 1's include:

1. Bel Canto Black EX (integrated or the separates). My contact says the separates are far superior. I'm concerned this setup is too analytical. Anyone heard them?

2. Bel Canto Ref600m. Keep my directstream dac and bhk signature preamp. Probably more than good for an office!?!

3. Hegel 360 or the new forthcoming monster integrated (590)? They're not too pretty to look at but it seems like I've read about hegel and kef being matched at several audio shows. Is there a hegel house sound particularly with the KEF’s?

4. McIntosh mc611. I'll admit it.... I'm a sucker for the looks of McIntosh plus their easy listenability. I've never had ear fatigue listening to a McIntosh setup. I'd be keeping the directstream dac and bhk signature preamp for this combo. Afraid that is be giving up a lot going from the bhk monoblocks to the McIntosh with similar heat. 

5. Luxman L509x. Brand new. Supposed to be very musical and runs cool. I'd probably run with the directstream dac. 

Your thoughts / ideas are appreciated.... Especially if you've heard the recommendation with KEF reference 1's. It's all about system synergy, right!?!

thank you,
ken


keoliphant
Caphill, we were a Devialet dealer and the sound quality just was never there, in some ways the Devialet was extraordinary, no noise, deep bass, big soundstage, the problem was always the product never had the musicallity that drew you into the experiece, the T+A was far superior when we tried a large list of amps/preamp combos on our Polymer Loudspeakers and then the Paradigm Personas, the T+A gear sounded better than the $60K CJ Art and Gat, the Manley Labs Snappers, the Electrcompaniet AW 400, the Devialet D400 Monoblocks, the Thrax gear, and finally the Chord SPM 1400 monoblocks and CPM 5000 preamp.

Also in terms of the Bel Canto being better than the T+A 2500R Dac 8 DSD combination, Everest did not setup the Dac 8 correctly you need to be running Roon or Jriver, and converting to Double rate or Quad Rate DSD which opens up the sound considerably, which is one reason we don't carry the Melco.  PCM on the Dac 8 is good, upsampled is way better and in the case of the Dac 8 the real magic is running the higher rate DSD which really creates a spooky 3d soundstage and a very analog like presentation.

The Bel Canto maybe fantastic but you should also be aware it does have its limitiations, one of which is everything is digitized including Analog signals, and two everything is converted to PCM.

We personally find that for certain products DSD sounds much more like analog but it does depend on the product.

So we would recommend that you compare the Bel Canto vs other similar packages and let the chips fly. 

Another thing to consider is how upgradable is the Bel Canto? 

We did check out the Bel Canto Black and it does seem like a very interesting piece, with the notable limitations as noted. 

The Naim Nova is a fantastic piece for the Kef Ref ones, and the upgraded NAC 272/250Dr is really impressive if you are looking for a more minimilist two box solution of amp with dac/preamp/streamer that will outperform the Nova,  Caphill is right on the money with the Nova, it is excellent and the package is great with the Ref Ones.

Whatever you choose look for a warm fuller sounding amp for the Ref Ones have very low levels of coloration and can benefit from a warmer sounding amplifier. 


Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ



keoliphant OP

These Kefs are not an easy load in the bass, hence some saying they are bright sounding, because amps can’t drive the bass hard enough.

Like I said before, and I have no skin in this like some others, before you buy the wrong amp to do the job or even spend too much.
Ask here or get someone if you don’t know what your looking at, to analyse these two graphs for impedance and phase of these Kefs you have, especially in the bass 50hz-200hz to give you an idea of what amp to buy.
https://www.fidelity-magazin.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/1-KEF-Reference-1-Impedanz.jpg

https://www.fidelity-magazin.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2-KEF-Reference-1-elektrische-Phase-1024x...

Cheers George
Georgehifi,

It isn't just a matter of current, it is a matter of voicing. Most modern amplifiers will have 0 problem pushing power into most impedances.

You take a very scientific approach our approach is via actual listening and considering we sell almost every KEF including the Blade, Ref One, Ref Three, Ref Five, Q, R, Series T, Series, Wireless, we know how and what works with a Kef.

If you look at two capable amplifiers into a load unless that speaker is pushing the stuffings out of the amplifier, most amplifers will sound great the difference is how the particular pairing will sound when used together. 

We did a similar demo today on the Elac Adante monitors, first using a 60watt Nad and then a 40 Watt Naim Atom. of course the $3.5k Naim Atom killed the $1,400.00 NAD and both amplfiers produced more than enough volume the difference was  the clarity of the Naim and the Naim's much tighter fuller bass and supeior macro dynamics, there was 0 strain with either amplifier.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
You take a very scientific approach our approach is via actual listening

Sorry, but I take both. As they are equally important.
And anyone recommending any amp should do also.


Hoping to learn more.
You may get an amp that behaves like a tone control into the Kef's difficult load instead of doing what amps should do, "maintaining a flat frequency response regardless of load variations".
Like this one, the wavy top line is what it’s frequency response is like into an easy "simulated Kantor" speaker load, far from flat!, it will be even worse with the Kef’s as they are harder to drive than the Kantors, this is what behaving like a tone control is meant.
https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/V10FIG02.jpg


Cheers George
@keoliphant OP
Since this is for your somewhat small office (10x14) imo the Naim Unity Nova would be your best choice and it will sound good on the KEF. At $7500 it’s a steal and it is all-in-one box solution and does not run hot like your PS Audio BHK monoblock amps. The sound quality is spectacular very musical smooth and refined. Comes equipped with very good quality streamer/DAC.