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Ayre Parasound Pass : where are you?

I’ve been thinking a little bit about three different types of SS amplifier sounds. I’m not really sure what to call them, but I have a definite preference. Here is the spectrum in my mind:

Ayre <--> Parasound <--> Pass 

On the one hand is Ayre and Arcam. Yeah, fight me, but there are big similarities to the sound. I also loved the Pono and what it did for my IEMs, using the Ayre designed output stage. I wish Fiio would license it too.

In the middle is Parasound Halo and ICEpower Class D modules (I’ve owned both) which to me are identical in sound quality. Clearly I’m happy with them for the price!

On the opposite end of the spectrum is Pass. A sound I really don’t like.

But regardless of which you like, what do you think the differences are?

What spectrum do you use to think about solid state amplifiers??
erik_squires
mikey8811
259 posts
 
This is the first time I’ve heard Pass Labs amps being described as thin and really that is the furthest from my experience with them. So I guess it all comes down to system particulars.

I like Ayre as well but would say that compared to Pass, they are leaner sounding - at least the non Twenty versions are.

I came close to buying some MX R’s (non Twenty) but ended up with Pass which had a more ballsy and definitely fuller sound. Thin they are definitely not. I've heard the X250.5 and would not describe them as thin either - granted the top end has a bit of grain. The Ayre’s were smooth and rolled off up top in a good way and I would have been happy with them too.
helomech
1,651 posts
 
@erik_squires 

@helomech : I lived with Parasound Halo A23's (a pair fo them) for months. I built ICEPower ASP 250 based monoblocks. I could not tell them apart under any circumstances. Which is why I sold the Parasounds and kept the high efficiency monoblocks instead.

I don't have experience with the A23s, but if your amps managed to sound like the Halo Integrated or JC1s, then you should seriously consider selling your design as they would be some of the best sounding class D amps available. I even preferred the Halo Integrated to the Devialet Expert Pro (something, don't recall the number, some $30K amp). Surprised that some claim Parasound is thin, that's the opposite of my experience. Every class D amp I've encountered lacked bass at lower SPLs and had a clinical, albeit articulate sound. Unfortunately they had no soul. I suppose they could be good for monitoring purposes - so long as it's at 80db^ for decent low-octave bass.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I totally agree with helomech's opinion of Class D lacking soul (or air, if you will).  If you can't hear the difference between Class D and Parasound A23, it could be something else in your system that is limiting the resolution (such as speaker, or source, or cables).
erik_squires OP
16,013 posts
 
@helomech - Maybe it helps that the speakers I was comparing with are super easy to drive, especially in the treble. 

I've never heard Parasound amps sounding thin either. A touch on the warm side, and as much bass as the recording has. 

My Class D amps are OEM modules stuffed into Chinese cases, nothing special. But I had a number of audiophiles over, including one who lives with a Pass stack. None felt the need to comment on the sound of the amps. :) 

Best,

Erik 
caphill
673 posts
 
Classe D amps have come a long way and have gone through significant improvements sonically compared to early class D designs from back in the day. Overall performance wise I myself still prefer analog (class A or AB) amps or tubes indeed, but nowadays I’ve heard very good class D designs such as the Classe Sigma amplifiers which are class D design that uses Classe’s own proprietary class D design circuitry.

These Classe Sigma class D design amplifiers sounded better than most class D design amps I’ve heard out there, they are smooth, very dynamics, refined, highly resolved, very transparent, fast, has rhtymic drive. The highs are very smooth surprisingly and they have very good separations between different instruments and vocals within the soundstage and have good amounts of air and space between them but they somewhat lack midrange and mid-bass bloom and the bass power but the lower bass goes really deep and is very extended but the mid to upper bass are somewhat lacking in comparison to Classe’s own class AB designs (Classe Delta series amps) or class A designs (Classe Omega series amps). Classe’s own class AB or A design amps have fuller sounds and more musical and quieter and better overall than its class D designs found in its Sigma series amps.

But in contrary to what someone said earlier in this thread that class D amps lack air, not all class D amps lack air. These Classe Sigma series class D amps do not lack air IMO. Some cheaper and lower end class D design amps might lack air but not these Classe Sigma series amps.

But yes I agree that all class D design amps lack soul, lush sound, the artist’s expressions and overall musicality but they are good for HT applications IMO they are very dynamic and fast which will suit well for HT system especially those DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby True-HD or even Dolby Atmos & DTS-X formats from bluray & 4k UHD bluray discs.

In regards to Ayre, Parasound Halo, Pass amps I think they are all very good amps in their price points but again it all depends on your speakers and the rest of your setup eg preamp, front end source components, cables, etc. One amplifier could sound really good on certain speakers and in certain setups but not necessarily will have the same good sonic synergy or overall results in different setups and systems. 
I believe in overall system synergy, interactions between different components within your setup and system thus achieve overall sound quality or audio performance of your setup and system.

Just my 2 cents.

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