Harbeth 30.1 ? The Ultimate Speaker under $5K ?

@helomech
How would you describe "don't hold a candle"? Are Harbeth speakers muddy in the upper bass/midrange? My references are ATC and Tannoy large models which I would describe as quite the opposite of muddy. Interested to complete with a BBC derivative just to be able to compare the sound. 

helomech, im not in the least offended.

my experience with harbeth is different then yours. i dont consider myself biased because i bought the graham ls59, and the harbeth shl5plus. ive lived with both for over 6 months. i found the harbeth more natural, engaging and musical then graham. the graham also have a measurable bbc dip of about -4db between 1.7khz up to 3.8 khz. maybe what you call natural is actually a bit colored (bbc dip)?

the graham ls59 also have a weird 2-3db peak around 6khz. all my measurements were confirmed by graham. i thought the graham were great and very similar then harbeth.

im not married to harbeth but to call them the least natural is the exact opposite of my experience. i wont even talk about spendor as ive not liked one spendor speaker ive audition. even d7 was imo coloured and unnatural

what im tired of seeing from you is in every thread mentionning harbeth you come in and claim the superiority of every other bbc conpanies. your only real experience is with the c7es3. i think the c7es3 is the worst harbeth model there is. id even take p3esr plus sub over c7es3.
so you base your entire narrative about harbeth having owned only one model. seems a bit weird and dishonest.

i also find the 30.1 much less good then shl5plus. the 30.1 coloration in the bass is subtle but a bit obvious.

look at stereophile measurements of the shl5plus. its flat down to 40hz and -6db at 30hz. with room gain it easily hits 30hz when well placed.

@gosta

I wouldn’t call the Harbeth bass "muddy," but it’s definitely not as punchy or dynamic as ATC. - that goes for all the BBC derivatives. What bothered me about the C7s, especially, was their cabinet was very easy to localize in the sound "picture." They didn’t perform the disappearing act very well. The bass was sort of like what I find in stock automotive speakers - overblown in the upper bass. It’s hard to describe, other than to say it sounded like the cone was working a little too hard and the cabinet needed a larger port. That wasn’t the case as much with the SHL5 but it was with the M30s.

The Harbeth midrange is pretty good but they just don’t resolve as much of the music as the competition. They have a brighter treble and upper midrange, which I suspect may be mistaken for greater detail by many listeners. I think the inherent benefits of a plastic cone are lost on Harbeths, because to my ears, they sound like what I associate with ceramic-coated aluminum drivers. It’s as though their goal of creating a very stiff plastic cone resulted in negating the inherent dampening properties of the plastic - so they sound almost like a metal cone. That’s just how I hear them and it goes for the whole range, from the P3s to the M40s.

I’m reluctant to provide these opinions because as you’ve probably noticed, their fanbase is an extremely sensitive and defensive bunch. As I’ve said before, this isn’t to say they’re bad speakers in the grand scheme of things, but I strongly feel they are over-hyped. I can only guess their popularity has to do with their much larger distribution network (in the U.S. anyway), their greater presence at hi-fi shows, and Alan Shaw’s subtle but effective prowess in content marketing. I also have to wonder if some of the audio rags are on their take. Tone Audio wrote a comparison piece where they claimed the C7s were a much better speaker than the Stirling Broadcast SB-88s. I couldn’t have disagreed more with that review. IME and opinion, the reality is quite the opposite. The SB-88s are the better speakers unless one judges them solely on expanse of the soundstage.

Being that you’re accustomed to ATC and Tannoy, I don’t know that you should bother with a BBC type speaker unless you want something a little warmer, in which case I’d recommend either the Grahams or Spendor Classics.

@murphythecat

I could really care less what you’re "tired of" me doing. I couldn’t give to licks about your opinions and they are just that - opinions - they’re no more valid than my own. You’re not going to stop me from posting my own. Yes, the C7s are the only Harbeths I’ve actually owned, but I’ve heard the others in dedicated listening rooms, driven by high-end gear. I’ve heard them enough to have formed my conclusion - that they don’t sound as natural or as resolving as the others. It’s just my opinion and it’s no more valid than yours. Folks here can take it for just that. I’ve become a bit of a Spendor fanboy, but in case you didn’t,
notice, I recommended the OP consider Klipsch or Tannoy for his needs. I won’t claim that Spendor are the end-all be-all of speaker design or that they’ll sound most natural to every listener.

I can tell you that I really wanted to prefer Harbeths, because I love the aesthetics of their cabinets - especially the Eucalyptus and Zebrawood veneers. Unfortunately, they just don’t do it for me sonically. I’m glad you’re happy with the SHL5s - really, because all that matters in the end is that we’re happy with our individual systems. All I suggested to the OP was that he give the competition a chance, and not assume the M30s are the best speaker under $5K. I’m sure you would agree that it’s foolish to make such an assumption about any speaker without some auditions.

@ Helomech

Thanks for your input. Yes, my next speaker set need to provide me with a little more warmth when playing not so perfect recordings (like most rock and sometimes pop like Adele). I thought the Tannoys DC10A would bring me that, but they are merciless...(like the ATC 150). I'm still running them in (letting my head get used to them) to later compare them direct to the ATC. On good recordings they are fantastic though with the best soundstage I experienced so far (yes, including ATC). Extremely precise. I run them with their big DC subwoofer.

Maybe I already got the "warmer" loudspeaker in a pair of Gamut M7 which I pair with two SVS sb-16 subs (Lyngdorf 2200). They are both warmer in the mids and softer in the highs (Scanspeak revelator drivers) and can play very loud without disturbing distortion. However, for good recordings the ATC and the Tannoys for me are superior. So, maybe it's of no use for me to think about a traditional english speaker to complete my setup. Maybe I should look for something else. Vintage Tannoys?

Recommend a listen to Bonnie Raitt "In session" - early live acoustic.