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AV Pre/Processor vs 2 Channel Pre-Amp - Sound Quality

Ok, so let’s say we have the most amazing separate 2 channel amp, and we connect it to an AV Processor, and then to a dedicated 2 channel preamplifier separate specifically for music play. Are we really going to hear a difference at say the $2000 level?
craigert
caphill
674 posts
 
@craigert

The Classe Sigma 2200i digital stereo integrated amp currently retails for $5500 brand new or unless if you can find a used one somewhere then can be had for around $3500 or so. Just keep an eye on it here on Audiogon and somewhere else. This will be a perfect choice for you since you only have 2.1 setup in your living room anyway. This Classe Sigma 2200i is a 2.1 unit. It has bass management, subwoofer output, manual PEQ, HDMI inputs for your AV sources, USB input for your digital music files, spdif & Toslink inputs as well as a pair of analog audio inputs (XLR & RCA). I highly recommend using its USB input for your digital music sources cause its USB input will sound the best. And get a high quality USB cable for that and you will be amazed by the sonic result when using its rear USB input. This unit is optimized for use with its USB input for your digital music files playbacks.

However, the Classe Sigma 2200i will digitize its analog audio inputs, so if you have analog sources such as turntable + phonostage pre, well......the Classe Sigma 2200i is not for you. You don’t want your turntable to be digitized.

Its HDMI switch board supports 4k video pass through. But the Sigma 2200i does not decode surround sound formats eg Dolby Digital, Dolby True-HD, Dolby Atmos, DTS, DTS HD-Master Audio, etc. This is a stereo digital integrated amp.

The sound is very resolved, clean, great clarity, details and nuances, great soundstage sizes, stereo imaging, it excels in PRAT (Pace Rhythm And Timing), it has rhythmic drive and speed.
It has plenty of power too. It’s rated at 200 wpc @ 8 ohms and 400 wpc @ 4 ohms with both channels driven. It uses classs D design amplifier. Classe designs its own proprietary class D circuitry.

The Classe Sigma 2200i digital stereo integrated amp is all you need for your 2.1 setup. It has more than enough HDMI inputs that you will ever need for your AV or video sources such as your BD player, cable TV box and other AV or video sources, plus a really well implemented USB input for your digital music files playbacks. And it does bass management crossover and a subwoofer out. And it sounded great and will drive your Monitor Gold speakers with ease.

auxinput
2,920 posts
 

I think both the Parasound Integrated and the Classe 2200i could be potential solutions. 

The Classe is going to have a superior DAC/preamp stage.  Much more resolution / attack / detail.  However, the amp part is Class D, which does has it's own unique sound.  And, like caphill stated, it does not have a phono preamp input -- and it's not a true analog preamp because it will convert all analog inputs to digital before processing.  All bass management is done in DSP and then sent to the units internal DAC.  Cost is higher, like caphill stated.  It's not a true "HT Bypass" preamp.

The Parasound is a true analog preamp.  Has a true analog crossover.  With phono preamp input.  Pretty much a "jack of all trades" integrated.  However, it is warmer sounding than the Classe with softer high frequency response.  But it's a true Class AB amp instead of Class D.  I suppose it's possible that the Parasound will sound more "analog" than the Classe, but it will be a "softer" analog.  The DAC that is built into the Parasound integrated/preamps is very low quality.  So it's best to use an external DAC for 2-channel audio.

Parasound integrated is much cheaper.  The previous version can be had used for $2k or under.  There's actually one on usaudiomart for $1700 right now.  The new HINT6 has some minor improvements (resistor ladder volume, increase phono gain), but not hugely significant.  HINT6 retail price is at $3k, so I suppose it's all about budget.

caphill
674 posts
 
But the OP (craigert) needed HDMI inputs for his AV or video sources such as his BD player, cable TV box TiVo, etc. The Parasound integrated lacks HDMI switchings. Only few stereo integrated amps would have HDMI switchings. The Classe Sigma 2200i is one of them. And its HDMI switching equipped with the latest video formats eg 4k pass through, hdcp 2.2. If the OP went with the Classe Sigma 2200i integrated amp he can eliminate his Pioneer av receiver and just use the Classe Sigma 2200i for both his AV or video sources and digital music files sources. In the end, it will simplify his setup for his living room/TV by having just one box that does everything well. 

The Sigma 2200i does not have DAC. The digital signal is kept in digital domain all the way through the amplifier output buffer, which will then be converted to analog for speakers to use. Cause the amplifier section is a digital one and Classe uses DSP to regulate its class D amplifier. That’s why it will digitize its analog audio inputs. Classe claimed that the unique design in the Sigma 2200i integrated is aimed to preserve the digital signal purity throughout its signal paths.

In regards to the Classe’s own proprietary class D amplifier design, the sound is actually pretty analog with smooth highs, very clean very transparent and lots of air and spaces between instruments.
The bass was deep extended, very articulate and very detailed and very well controlled. But IMO it slightly lacks the bass and mid-bass power and mid-range bloom and bottom end grunt.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

Not to get into an argument, but I have heard Classe's Class D solutions.  It is very clean/clear.  However, it is so clean that it's too clean.  There is no "life" to the music and it actually leaves me wanting more.

I suppose it's true that the Sigma can replace his receiver, but he needs to go into this with full knowledge.

Your statement that the Sigma does not have a "DAC" may be true in the conventional DAC chip sense, but there is always going to be a circuit that produces pulses based on digital data.  This has to go through some sort of pre-driver circuit for the amplifier.

I try to be very open minded when answering questions and not push one option over the other.  I have read many of your posts here and it seems that you push Classe solutions over every other solution out there, stating that Classe is the absolute best regardless.   I would ask that you try to post based on your direct experience with specific devices instead of "selling" the Classe marketing.  It really sounds like that's what your trying to do.

caphill
674 posts
 
First of all, I’m in no way or affiliated with Classe Audio. My recommendation was solely based on my own experiences. I do own various Classe Delta series class AB amps in my dedicated HT room with the Lyngdorf MP-50 AV processor, which I’m still awaiting for its arrival and previously been using the SSP 800 for years.
But in my separate dedicated two-channel listening room you won’t find a single Classe gear. But for HT amps Classe are very good especially their Delta series class AB amps, even their Sigma series class D amps are suitable for HT. I guess I would say that in entry level hifi category Classe makes one of the best amps in comparison to Marantz or Rotel or Yamaha or Denon or NAD or Pioneer or Onkyo or Emotiva. I usually associate Classe with entry level hifi, not real high end.

The OP in this thread and few other threads were looking for something quite affordable and so I suggested Classe would be better choice than other entry level gears mentioned above.
If the OP was willing to pay for some serious amount of money then I would have recommended something else such as Pass, Vitus Audio, Naim, Devialet, Soulution, VTL, VAC, BAT, Audio Research, CH Precision, D’Agostino, T&A, Boulder, Esoteric, etc, etc.
These are different leagues than Classe or other entry level brands but are priced much much higher than Classe or Marantz.
But for what it’s worth I think Classe is very good for the money, especially their Delta series class AB amps.

For HT application Classe is one of my favorite amplifiers along with the B&W 800 series D3 speaker system, but not for music.
For music I like Naim, Audio Research, Simaudio, VAC, BAT, VTL, T&A, Dan D’Agostino, Pass, Levinson among others. But these gears are at different price points than Classe.

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