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narrow and wide baffles and imaging

According to all the "professional" audio reviews that I've read over the last several years, narrow baffles are crucial to creating that so-desired pin-point imaging.

However, over the last few weeks, I've had the opportunity to audition Harbeth 40.2, Spendor Classic 100, Audio Note AN-E, and Devore O/93.  None of these had deficient imaging; indeed I would go so far as to say that it was good to very good.

So, what gives?  I'm forced to conclude that modern designs, 95% of which espouse the narrow baffle, are driven by aesthetic/cosmetic considerations, rather than acoustical ones, and the baffle~imaging canard is just an ex post facto justification.

I can understand the desire to build speakers that fit into small rooms, are relatively unobtrusive, and might pass the SAF test, but it seems a bit much to add on the idea that they're essentially the only ones that will do imaging correctly.



128x128twoleftears
prof
3,491 posts
 
fsonicsmith,


I know Shakey Graves.  (Not exactly a fan, but he got on my radar due to some recommendation).


As I've mentioned, I found the 0/96 and 0/93 imaging pretty good, even if not pin-point.   I also really got yet another reminder of the importance of speaker positioning.  As you know the Devores generally have a big, rich sound.   But at one point while moving them around during my audition the dealer had them closer together, and really toed in heavily.  At that point that richness and image size practically disappeared into a small, squeezed sound!  Once we spread them out enough again, and aimed them right, then they did that Devore thing with big rich images and weight.


tangramca,


Yeah, if you are wedded to the most pin-point imaging the Devores are the wrong direction.  That said, I'm still surprised they didn't turn your crank at all, given the genres you mentioned are particularly suited to the Devores IMO. 


tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,153 posts
 
Duke is science based ..love that....even the dark arts of HOW we hear..
anyway....the big baffle also honks up frequency response....period...
audiokinesis
2,754 posts
 

@twoleftears wrote:

"So what we need is a 19" front baffle?"

Maybe even wider, depending on driver diameters and crossover points!

That being said, I think a small baffle with large round-overs would image extremely well, assuming all of its other ducks are in a row.

The venerable and magnificent Snell Acoustics Type A used a wide baffle that was virtually one big round-over on both sides and on the top (of the front baffle), and its imaging was superb.

I think large-diaphragm panel speakers avoid significant edge diffraction by virtue of their inherent directivity.

The approach I embrace is to use a compression driver on a low-diffraction waveguide whose radiation is fairly narrow in the horizontal plane (-6 dB at 45 degrees to either side of the centerline, falling to about -20 dB at 90 degrees, or towards the cabinet edge). The woofer has a large enough diameter that its radiation pattern is essentially the same as the waveguide in the crossover region. I don’t claim that this is necessarily the best-imaging format, but I believe it does enough other things well to be competitive overall.

I have NOTHING against superb imaging, and I think I know how to get it (time coherence and application of the principles I described above), but it is not my top priority. Imo loudspeaker design is a juggling of compromises, and anyone who says differently is in marketing.

@tomic601 wrote:

"the big baffle also honks up frequency response....period..."

How so?

fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
975 posts
 
Imo loudspeaker design is a juggling of compromises, and anyone who says differently is in marketing.
I possess a fraction of your technical knowledge, a tiny fraction, but this is my viewpoint too. But just to expand upon that, the people that have a hard time accepting this reality are the ones who equate exotic driver materials, driver shapes, enclosure materials, enclosure shapes, crossover configurations, crossover components, et al to "the best". I read S'Phile these days for only one reason; I love the tension between the tech weenies (JA, MF, KR) and the luddites (AD, HR, SG, KM). This thread is about baffle size but barring a dipole, large baffle speakers tend to have resonant cabinets. One approach is to try to eliminate all resonance and another is to play to the resonance. Again, it boils down to an effort to change the real world vs. an accommodation of the real world, or swimming upstream vs. downstream. One can validly argue that those that fight the current (pun) by swimming upstream are the ones who innovate and create new concepts. I accept that. But with loudspeakers, where has that gotten us? 98% of the "cutting edge" loudspeaker designs boil down to marketing BS. And now I am really getting OT, but the same applies to cabling, amplification, and all else other than digital technology. 
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,153 posts
 
 @audiokinesis  reflected wave off baffle creates constructive and destructive interference, seen as amplitude.....
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