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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Thezaks, 
Agree. The very nature of this interesting thread is rooted in subjective reporting. This is the foundation. One listener rotates amplifiers and speakers into his home audio system and renders a listening impression based solely on what he heard. Interesting for sure but by no means absolute. Nor does WC claim to be absolute.
Charles
thezaks
712 posts
 
@charles1dad
I totally agree about dealers being afraid to sell their product to WC - it’s definitely silly. I had an experience like that one time - a guy named Jerry from 10audio-dot-com has interconnects that he makes himself and sells on A’gon and his website. The interconnects are around $100-$150/pair and claimed to beat out a top end Audioquest interconnect that costs much more. I sent him a question about the cables, and I guess he felt that I might have my doubts about the cable. So, he banned me from his ad on Audiogon. I wanted to try them out, but he would not let me.

Of course, that’s new products. They really can’t do anything to keep WC (or the rest of us) from buying used products from non-Dealers :-)
Dave
viber6
2,454 posts
 
thezaks,
Ah, we're coming to a common understanding about objectivity and subjectivity, great.  A few minor differences, though.  We both agree that people hear differently.  This is OBJECTIVELY true, demonstrable by basic hearing tests.  See how agreement is easy when you have objective facts and measurements to back you up?  However, at age 65, I have hearing deficiencies above about 10 Khz, so I don't claim to be as objective and revealing as a good microphone.  Even in 20 year olds, I have measured hearing deficiency at 18-20Khz compared to 9 year olds.  I try to be as objective as possible within my limitations, and acknowledge that there is quite a lot of subjectivity/uncertainty in my perceptions.  So audio is not about total subjectivity vs total objectivity, it really is some combination of both.  And charles1dad, pure subjectivity is completely unreliable, since the reviewer doesn't understand what he is listening to and doesn't have the basic vocabulary to describe it intelligently.  On the other hand, pure objectivity in reference to lab measurements only may not tell you completely about how a system sounds.  We are trying to do more measurements to get more info, and the challenge is to combine the measurements in some way to correlate better with everything we hear.  John Atkinson in Stereophile often does a good job of correlating his measurements with the sound the reviewer describes.  WC doesn't have test equipment, but he nicely describes objective and subjective characteristics, since I believe he has a great ear and is articulate about his findings.  So let's try to get more value from our comparative listening and reporting by doing both objective and subjective analysis.

Individual preferences is another subject.  Someone might LIKE that bass bump, but should be honest and objectively admit that there is that bass bump and he just likes it.  As minorl said above, the bass bump is probably unnatural--I agree with his objective observation that the bass bump is there in some systems I have heard, even though it is a certainty that he and I hear differently in some ways, and my opinion matches his that it is unnatural.  On one level, this opinion is subjective, since we weren't at the recording session and don't know objectively what the engineer really did.  But you can play numerous recordings through such a system and objectively say that in most cases, it is an objective fact that the system has a bass bump.  The more knowledgeable you are about natural, live music and the more informed is your listening, your subjective statement becomes more authoritatively objective, although not completely so.
minorl
1,016 posts
 

You have to admit, what WC has started is some very good and much needed conversations/discussions about equipment, rooms, perception, etc.

I am actually enjoying this and really admire WC (and his wife for allowing him to do this).  The ultimate resulting side discussions are not only needed but mandatory.

I was in San Diego recently and went to a "high end" dealer.  Stereo Unlimited I believe.  Since Stereo Design closed their doors a while ago, my fun has been limited.

However, Stereo Unlimited has pretty good salespeople and consultants with a good inventory of equipment.  They sell used and new albums also.

I grabbed a 4 disc copy of Dire Straits Brother in Arms album and played in on one system with  golden ear speakers, Rogers (I believe integrated) and I forgot the turntable.  Brother in Arms is a song that really demonstrates much about systems.

That song was great, however, the bass kind of threw me off.  It was thumping and good, but hmmm.

I then took the album in the other room to hear it on the system with Vandersteen 7s, VTL amps and pre-amp and again (forgot the turntable). I asked the owner to remove the existing speakers and put the Vandersteen 7s in the system.  They were in the same room.  He (with help) managed to do that for me without complaint.  Well, I found a new favorite store, other than Randall's in Santa Monica.

Wow!!!! the Vandersteen and VTL setup really sang.  love those speakers.  What I really noticed was that the golden ear speakers exaggerated the bass.  Most people that don't compare with A/B comparisons at the same time wouldn't really notice until much later (after purchase).  But, to me, the Golden ear speakers in that system exaggerated the bass. 

Granted the Vandersteens and VTL setup was much, much more expensive, but one could tell that the bass wasn't right.

enjoy

techno_dude
382 posts
 
Subjectively or not, we get a fairly detailed view of how the big guns compared with each other in WC’s system. I understand why some dealers or makers can be afraid of this thread conclusions, they well know some more expensive products performs no better than some less expensive ones... When that happens, they bring in the ´´everything is always relative ´´ card big time...Yeah yeah...
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