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Stillpoints - snake oil?

Anybody here using Stillpoints Ultras? My dealer thinks highly of them, but I am very suspicious.
128x128thyname
edstrelow
37 posts
 
I find that spikes for speakers work to some extent as do sorbothane footers for electronics but I get much better results with stick on sorbothane. backed with 4 layers of electrical tape to create what is known in mechanical engineering as constrained damping. These I use on speakers, headphones, amps and cd players.

 Here are the key points: 1) use small squares of sorb, no more than 1 inch square, 2) use dense sorbothane 70 duro is what to look for, 3) use as thick sorb as you can get, 1/4 to 1/2 inch, I have not used 1 inch but  Sorbothane  notes on its site that thicker gives better damping of low frequencies.  4) fastening is critical, 3m stick on is pretty good but I cannot find 1/2 inch with it.  I use one of Sorbothane's recommended but expensive glue, Lord 7650 for this and once it cures it is very good.  There is a fair bit of experimentation going on with these types of damping material, eg most Sennheiser owners are unaware that the HD 800's use such material in the headband (yes vibrations travel in most phones through the headband)  I see the HD 820 mentions " an inner damping element"  in the headband.  At other times they refer to a space age material or a polymer (sorb is a polymer BTW) .

The usual law of diminishing returns just doesn't apply to these mods. $10 of sorb and tape is going to sound like a couple of thousand dollars have been spent. See this thread for the history of work on this topic. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-s...
duckworp's avatar
duckworp
257 posts
 
In a recent Hi-Fi+ magazine article the journalist interviews and follows a Hi-Fi consultant.  This consultant is employed by people to come over to their home and he spends time aligning the system: speakers, racks, cables etc.  Under each component he places three cork sanding blocks, sold for £2 each at hardware stores. He swears by them.  I am planning to try this next time I pass a hardware store. 

I tried Stillpoints under my cdp/dac and under the amp.  Made no difference at all to my ears.  

I use the Townshend seismic rack corner supports on my rack, this isolates the whole rack effectively.  Townshend told me that with the rack fully isolated in this way there would be less gain from isolating individual components.  Maybe that’s why the stillpoints didn’t work for me?

Having said that, at the Munich Hi-Fi show I discovered Coral Copulare risers and bought 3 - they are made of synthetic coral. They work well under the cdp/dac and are a bargain (100 Euro for three).   They did nothing under the amp. 

Having had great success with IsoAcoustic Gaia feet on my speakers I’m interested in their component feet. They use a similar science to Townshend, decoupling with air and pressure rather than with steel, and the Townshend method seems to get better results for me (on a suspended wooden floor).
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,874 posts
 
@duckworp---Have you considered getting Townshend Seismic Pods (or platforms, etc.) for using under your speakers? That is suppose to be one of their most effective uses, so if you’re happy with the Seismic Corner Supports, you might be with the Pods as well. I have them under my Townshend Rock Elite turntable, and am sold. I’ll be getting them for my speakers soon. They are about the same price as the IsoAcoustics GAIA 1's.
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
1,019 posts
 

Good to see people tuning! It’s important to remember, no two systems are going to be "Tuned" the same. The Audio Trilogy comes down to 3 simple parts Electrical, Mechanical and Acoustical. The "Method of Tuning" you use is as important as your tuning tools. "Everything affects everything else" is what tweaking your system is all about.

Snake Oil=Not Understanding.

The faster you get past the "snake oil" theory, the sooner you will start learning how to voice your system in. The key to understanding is when you get to the place where you realize your audio signal is a "variable". Once you get to that point, then you can explore just how variable. Lower mass systems are more tunable than high mass. High mass systems are more locked into a fixed sound. Problem with having a fixed sound (one sound) system is all recordings are different. High mass systems typically play less recordings’ recorded codes. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s all a choice. Low mass systems allow for a wider vibratory response.

Two sides

A system that you dampen is going to play one sound, more than a system where you use mechanical transfer and variable tuning. Mechanical transfer works very much like a musical instrument. As you make adjustments to the transfer points you gain control over the signal.

Fields

An audio signal falls into the category of influence of fields. Just as you tune your system mechanically you are also tuning your system’s fundamental forces. Mechanical transfer is a part of this, but so is the electromagnetic field, and the mechanical/acoustical effect. They all work together as well as influence each other.

It’s pretty basic science and as your system becomes more of a tool and less of brand name faceplates, that’s when the hobby can really take off for you.

Michael Green

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
michaelgreenaudio
A system that you dampen is going to play one sound, more than a system where you use mechanical transfer and variable tuning. Mechanical transfer works very much like a musical instrument. As you make adjustments to the transfer points you gain control over the signal.

>>>>>I agree that one should transfer mechanical energy (including acoustic energy and residual energy) rapidly out of the component. The problem arises when you *allow* mechanical energy transfer from the structure to the component, I.e., by not (rpt not) *isolating* the component from seismic energy. Seismic energy in the frequency range 0 to 20 Hz and higher isn’t good for anyone, no matter how you slice it. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

As for damping, there are Dampers and there are Dampers. Obviously, “over-dumping” is never a good idea, as Acoustic Revive has stated. I think dismissing all damping is kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
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