Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
Michael: After I last posted here I checked out your website to learn what this tuning stuff is all about. I see you have several approaches to optimizing the triad of audio elements. So we are alike in that I have sought my own version of "tuning" through the years, but my approach is very different than yours. My version of "tuning" is more focused on room treatment (absorption and diffusion) and speaker/listening position/placement. I am also a proponent of time and phase correct speakers with wide response drivers and 1st order crossovers. I am not into taking protective covers off of electronic components and placing such items on multilayer wood plinth stacks and girders that fill up the listening space. I’ll theorize that all the acoustic reflections you get off of all that stuff in the listening space are as impactive as any mechanical vibration mitigation. My theory, based on personal observations that are constantly evolving through trial and error, is that a good stand is very important, and for that reason I have enjoyed Pierre Sprey’s maple, steel and brass stands from Mapleshade. I was initially attracted to Pierre’s approach because his aerospace engineering background appealed to my interest in material sciences and control of resonance by design. It works. I have also heard Adona stands and was impressed. But ultimately, I would rather get to a point where my system sounds sufficiently enjoyable so that I can simply listen to music and forget about the hardware and more "tuning." In my mind, that’s still walking. Theory is mostly talking (one exception is subatomic nuclear physics math), but it should be based on the walking performed previously, otherwise, it’s simply conjecture and hand waving, and there’s nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. Experiments are the walk, no doubt, and if 5% of the time one learns something that advances understanding from pure experimentation, even if the result is no change, then that is informative. I don’t understand your approach and why you "walk" the way you do with your experiments. Perhaps a little about the basis of this here would be informative to those of us curious to know what is the scientific/engineering/acoustic grounding of some of your configurations and constructions? Why do you think they work from a physical standpoint? WHat exactly is vibrating, the transformer? A platform is not going to stop that. I also respectfully disagree with you about your use of the term "audio code." Audio is analog; there is no code. A sinewave may be a "code" in terms of a mathematical formula, but it’s not music. The proper term is timbre and it’s an important one to use when referring to (from Wiki!) "the character or quality of musical sound." Again, there is no code, just as no two systems are ever alike, even if they were composed of exactly the same components and room dimensions/materials, they will never exist in the same time and space. Hence, no code; the variables are virtually infinite. And, the recording process is fraught with distortions, (phase, time, etc) that accumulate from violin to speaker to ear. Minimizing distortion of timbre throughout the recording/playback chain is the key. Please explain why removing a chassis accomplishes this?
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@stevecham---You don’t understand. You ask MG to explain what he does, but he’s not gonna give that away---that’s his product! He is no longer a hi-fi retailer selling currently available commercial products (except his own), he sells his "tuning" service. He comes on Forums saying "Let’s have some fun!", but this is his business. He’s not posting here to "have some fun", he’s here to create interest in his services, his business.

MG’s original commercial products in the 1990’s were the Room Tunes. Have you ever seen one, or even better looked inside or taken one apart? It’s a sheet of fiberglass insulation covered in grill cloth. Big Deal! A real acoustical engineer, Art Noxon of Acoustic Science Corporation, produces real, sophisticated acoustical products. They are found in recording studios and high performance hi-fi rooms all over the world. I’ve never seen a Room Tune in any studio I’ve been in, nor any high performance home music system. Everyone gave their Room Tunes away years ago; there are far better products available.

I’m all for optimizing the sound of one’s system and room with tweaks. But "tuning" your CD player, receiver (really? A receiver?!), or speakers, and changing the "tuning" for different recordings? That’s a sure way to madness!

Ok, so I want to be clear here. What your asking for is for me to show you even more credits? You do realize that this promotes me more not less.

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t249-a-look-at-tunable-systems#4490

I guess I can post more of this on TuneLand and then send links to the pages.

To the members emailing, I know LOL!

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/


"Michael: After I last posted here I checked out your website to learn what this tuning stuff is all about. I see you have several approaches to optimizing the triad of audio elements. So we are alike in that I have sought my own version of "tuning" through the years, but my approach is very different than yours."

Hi Steve

Feel free to join us on the TuneLand forum. Cool to see you using Pierre's products!

Michael Green