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Lyngdorf TDAI-3400

Well, after reading all the rave reviews of the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 both here and other places, I decided to order a TDAI-3400 for myself.  I must admit I am still skeptical that such a diminutive piece of equipment can sound better than the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP tube amp weighing more than 50 lbs, but I have been so intrigued by everything I have read I simply had to pull the trigger. 
I just unboxed it today, hooked everything up, and am listening to it for a while before setting up Room Perfect. 
I really want to hear the what the amp sounds like as-is for a bit to understand it better. 
First impressions:  Without Room Perfect it sounds like very nice solid state amps I've owned in the past, but to be honest, I don't find the sound to be particularly moving.  I moved to tubes after years of solid state, and I swore I would never go back.  That is where I'm coming from.  I should also add that I always try to keep an open mind.  While my initial take on it might sound like I don't like it, I hope folks just read this as me being as honest as possible about what I hear.  I know the tendency when buying new gear is to want so badly to love it in order to justify the expense that it's easy to fool oneself into believing it's an improvement over what you had before, even when it's not.  Of course I really want it to be as mind blowing as it has been built up in my mind to be, but if it's not I am OK with simply moving back to what I have liked so far.   
I have only been playing records through it so far.  Analog makes up 98% of my listening so that's where I am starting with it.  I have a nice CD transport that I will connect to it in the next day or so just to hear the DAC in the unit.  I will also experiment with playing files from USB sticks, computer audio from my MacBook Pro, and whatever else I decide.  I am not prepared to purchase a music server just yet, but it's something I have thought about for a while.  
My system:  speakers are Harbeth Monitor 40.1's.  Turntable is an SME 20/2 with SME IV.iv tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cartridge, fed to a Parasound JC-3+ phono preamp.  Power conditioner is Audioqest Niagara 7000.  CD transport is a Wadia 8.  
I will report back as I have more time to experiment and let the amp break in.  

128x128snackeyp
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Oops!  Walter I posted prior to seeing your reply above. Thanks a lot for providing such a straightforward listening impression as you always seem to do.   You and Jonathan have provided terrific insight into this product and that is much appreciated.  No doubt that it is an  excellent  and very special audio product. 
 Charles 
waltersalas's avatar
waltersalas
952 posts
 

Hi Charles,

I would say that my impressions are preliminary, because I believe I have only scratched the surface on what the Lyngdorf can do and be in my system. It is so fun, and so versatile. And it sounds great, too!  So far, I do not quite have the "goose bump" factor with it that I get with my LM 508ia on some recordings, but I am not so sure that I won't get there with the 3400, which is so very impressive in so many ways. 

For one thing, it has much better range of volume control than the 508ia, and it sounds better both at lower and higher volumes, maintaining its character up and down the dial. I love that! The low end is much more authoritative through the 3400, and the sound overall is better balanced, whereas the LM 508 excels in the mid range, but lacks the punch and visceral impact of the 3400, which is not to say that the 508 won't rattle the china in your cabinets. It will, but the 3400 holds together better at higher volumes and never shows any signs of strain whatsoever. In short, at this point, I would say there are trade offs, and one's preference would depend largely on one's sonic priorities. I could live happily with either set-up, and would have a hard time at this moment choosing which way to go.

I will be conducting some experiments this weekend to see if I can get a better handle on all of this. First I plan to run the 508 through the 3400 and run room correction to see how that compares with the 3400 on its own. Then I will remove the 3400 and put back in the 508 and the tube-rectified Lampi Atlantic, which is just an incredible DAC (very different and more dynamic and balanced than other Lampi DACs I've heard). This has been my reference for two years, so I know this sound well, but since I have been listening to the Lyngdorf for a full week, it will be interesting to hear it again after adjusting to the Lyngdorf sound. That might well be telling.



grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,510 posts
 
@waltersalas 

I just PM’d you as I have an idea or two for you.  Making what amounts to a system change,  less the speakers,  will take some time to fine tune to reach your sonic goals such as more midrange presence and intimacy.  I have done it, but it took me a year or so.  Carefully chosen tweaks and cabling will deliver the tube like mids you want.  Certainly so close that you will be satisfied. You already know these things take time to fine tune.  

I sure hope Lyngdorf has a good answer for @jcacopo.  Frustrating to have a new piece and not be able to sort out an issue so one can listen peacefully.  
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Shadorne 9-20-2018
I will add that digital room correction is a mixed bag. If the software is trying to heavily boost a null in the bass then it could easily cause your amplifier to clip in the bass even at modest volume levels.

+1. My thoughts exactly. @JCarcopo, perhaps the unit is working as designed, but the room correction function is doing exactly what Shadorne is saying.

I know that the DAC circuit at the output of the DEQX HDP-5 I use as my preamp can be clipped if any bass frequencies are boosted for room correction by more than about 6 db, depending on the frequency content of the music. In my case, though, exactly what the HDP-5 is doing for room correction, at every frequency, is visible and adjustable manually, via a computer that can be connected to it. Does the 3400 provide visibility into the characteristics of the corrections it introduces?

Regards,
-- Al

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Waltersalas,
I’m looking forward to your upcoming listening impressions with the system maneuvering you propose. You make an exceptionally compelling case for the Lyngdorf, that is for certain. The LM 608ia provides those elusive "goosebump" moments (which I totally understand).

If further burn-in time and fine tuning tweaks could very possibly get the Lyngdorf to the "goosebump" level. If so then overall the Lyngdorf would be the superior choice. Even without the "goosebumps" the Lyngdorf exceeds the  LM 508ia in several very meaningful sonic parameters. Again I thank you for your always clear and very descriptive writing.
Charles
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