Speed kills....


Which is why I love 'stats so much.  For myself, dynamics and leading edge transients are essential.  Are there any alternatives in terms of dynamic "boxey" type (verity?) speakers that I should listen to?  My present speakers are hales t8's (hales has been out of business a long time ago) and they are about as far away from that ideal as you can get.   I want to go in a different direction for my FINAL set of speakers.

russellrcncom

@inna wrote:  "I don't like in your face sound of horns but I understand that's not the case."

There are a LOT of things I don't like about many horns!  In-your-face sound, tiny sweet spot, cupped-hands, and being the obvious source of the sounds you're hearing.  Ime those problems arise from horn geometries optimized for things other than home hifi.   

The geometries I use are benign as far as internal reflections go, which prevents cupped-hands effect and helps the horn to "disappear" as the sound source.  Imaging is also improved... one time at an audio show a man who had been an employee of a horn loudspeaker company remarked, "Wow, I didn't know horns could image!"  They can as long as their geometries don't work against that.  They can also have an unusually wide sweet spot, and again it's the specifics of the horn geometry (and speaker set-up) that make it possible. 

But the relative lack of reverberant energy (due to their narrow radiation patterns) does, as you noted, make horns tend to have a more "in your face" presentation.  Personally I really like the feeling of being enveloped in the acoustic space of the recording, which is just the opposite kind of presentation.  So on my more expensive systems I use additional drivers to add a bit of beneficial late-onset reverberant energy, which imo does a good job of conveying that feeling of envelopment. 

So I am very picky about which horns I use.  And even then if the budget allows, I put a fair amount of effort into minimizing and/or working around the things they don't naturally do well. 

There are a lot of intensely passionate designers out there doing their best to deliver the things they think matter the most.  It's not the road to riches for most of us, but it sure is fun.

Duke

I was a little too absolute:

 the perception of speed comes from the dispersion alone.

I should have said "mostly" from the controlled dispersion pattern. 

And honestly, overall, ESL's are some of the most room friendly speakers on earth. Pairing them with a sub is where this all goes bad. Subs need treatment, EQ and good placement. 
I was just thinking, if we want to talk about the benefits of the ESL as a driver, maybe we shouldn't compare them to box speakers, but dipoles and line sources instead. 

That is a much more fair comparison of the ESL's quality than in a conventional box. You get very similar dispersion patterns (but not the vertical narrow control) 
Yes Erik, absolutely. ESL’s are almost often implemented as dipoles (sound launched forward and rearward), but not always as line sources. None of the Quads are line sources, but all are dipoles (though the rear of the 57 comes covered in felt---the center tweeter---and burlap---the entire back of the speaker). And of course a line source can also be made with multiple cones or domes, and as either a direct radiator loudspeaker or a dipole.
Duke,
You work in an interesting way and present what you do quite convincingly. I wish you success.