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Best Loudspeakers for Rich Timbre?

I realise that the music industry seems to care less and less about timbre, see
https://youtu.be/oVME_l4IwII

But for me, without timbre music reproduction can be compared to food which lacks flavour or a modern movie with washed out colours. Occasionally interesting, but rarely engaging.

So my question is, what are your loudspeaker candidates if you are looking for a 'Technicolor' sound?

I know many use tube amps solely for this aim, but perhaps they are a subject deserving an entirely separate discussion.
cd318
fleschler
2,008 posts
 
prof  I have a pair of Legacy Focus (originals) in the main listening room and a pair of their Signature IIIs in the living room.  

I have managed to achieve a wide sweet spot only recently.  I aim my speakers so that I can just see the inside sides from the center seat 13 feet away.  Then I use two pair of Shakti Hallographs and 32 SR HFTs mostly on the walls (none on the face of the speakers though-doesn't work for me).   My room is larger at 25' X 23'.  I couldn't imagine the speakers at a 45/45 angle towards me.  

The sound within four feet to the left and right of center now does not have a pronounced sound from the closest speaker on that side.  I find that a very happy situation as just two years ago, there was a severe drop off of sound from the further speaker toward the 5' edges away from the center spot.   

I've heard several Audio Physic speakers and that's something they're great at, disappearing from the room and creating a wide listening area.  Many small monitors can do that too but are destined for smaller rooms.  My former 5 pairs of high end (at the time) electrostats were not good for wide listening areas.  They beamed the sound towards the center spot (heard the same from Sanders speakers-really narrow listening area).  

Among the best disappearing speakers are omnidirectional speakers.  Recently, I auditioned the Carver Amazing speakers which excelled in the mids and highs sending sound evenly throughout the large room (as well as incredible stable imaging). 
fleschler
2,008 posts
 
prof  I have a pair of Legacy Focus (originals) in the main listening room and a pair of their Signature IIIs in the living room.  

I have managed to achieve a wide sweet spot only recently.  I aim my speakers so that I can just see the inside sides from the center seat 13 feet away.  Then I use two pair of Shakti Hallographs and 32 SR HFTs mostly on the walls (none on the face of the speakers though-doesn't work for me).   My room is larger at 25' X 23'.  I couldn't imagine the speakers at a 45/45 angle towards me.  

The sound within four feet to the left and right of center now does not have a pronounced sound from the closest speaker on that side.  I find that a very happy situation as just two years ago, there was a severe drop off of sound from the further speaker toward the 5' edges away from the center spot.   

I've heard several Audio Physic speakers and that's something they're great at, disappearing from the room and creating a wide listening area.  Many small monitors can do that too but are destined for smaller rooms.  My former 5 pairs of high end (at the time) electrostats were not good for wide listening areas.  They beamed the sound towards the center spot (heard the same from Sanders speakers-really narrow listening area).  

Among the best disappearing speakers are omnidirectional speakers.  Recently, I auditioned the Carver Amazing speakers which excelled in the mids and highs sending sound evenly throughout the large room (as well as incredible stable imaging). 
fleschler
2,008 posts
 
prof  I have a pair of Legacy Focus (originals) in the main listening room and a pair of their Signature IIIs in the living room.  

I have managed to achieve a wide sweet spot only recently.  I aim my speakers so that I can just see the inside sides from the center seat 13 feet away.  Then I use two pair of Shakti Hallographs and 32 SR HFTs mostly on the walls (none on the face of the speakers though-doesn't work for me).   My room is larger at 25' X 23'.  I couldn't imagine the speakers at a 45/45 angle towards me.  

The sound within four feet to the left and right of center now does not have a pronounced sound from the closest speaker on that side.  I find that a very happy situation as just two years ago, there was a severe drop off of sound from the further speaker toward the 5' edges away from the center spot.   

I've heard several Audio Physic speakers and that's something they're great at, disappearing from the room and creating a wide listening area.  Many small monitors can do that too but are destined for smaller rooms.  My former 5 pairs of high end (at the time) electrostats were not good for wide listening areas.  They beamed the sound towards the center spot (heard the same from Sanders speakers-really narrow listening area).  

Among the best disappearing speakers are omnidirectional speakers.  Recently, I auditioned the Carver Amazing speakers which excelled in the mids and highs sending sound evenly throughout the large room (as well as incredible stable imaging). 
audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 

@fleschler  wrote:  "I couldn't imagine the speakers at a 45/45 angle towards me."

I can understand that that's just too much visual weirdness for some people.

The first photo in this show report is taken from well off to one side of the centerline.  As you will see, in that location you are well off-axis of the near speaker but nearly on-axis of the far speaker. 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/10/22/rmaf-2015-audiokinesis-violates-space-and-time/

Unfortunately the write-up doesn't mention the sweet spot width.  But it does talk about soundstage size, in case your first instinct is that the soundstage would be compressed. 

"Among the best disappearing speakers are omnidirectional speakers."

I agree.  With omnis, the near speaker still "wins" both arrival time and intensity, though it doesn't win the latter by as large a margin as with conventional speaker.  So I think there is an argument for the approach I described even compared with omnis because with my approach the far speaker is the one that "wins" intensity. 

But you'd have to get past the weirdness, and that may be asking too much. 

Duke

audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 

Back on August 31st I posted that "getting the reverberant field right" matters if rich and natural-sounding timbre is a high priority.

I think there was a fair amount of skepticism, with @prof expressing it well back on September 8th: "I’ve never heard more room sound contribute to more accurate timbre."

I’d like to offer a youtube video of a presentation by acoustician David Griesinger. David investigates concert hall acoustics, and he has determined which reflection are beneficial and which are detrimental based on timing. He is going to demonstrate this by playing four clips that include and/or exclude early and late reflections.

First, he will play the direct sound only. This clip is time-gated to exclude all reflections, so it sounds thin because the longer wavelengths are also excluded. The singer’s voice sounds "proximate" (up close) because of the lack of reflections.

Next, he will play the direct sound plus the first reflections. The timbre will be a bit warmer because longer wavelengths are included, but the clarity will be significantly degraded.

The third clip is by far the most interesting: Direct sound MINUS the early reflections but INCLUDING the later ones. Now we have clarity along with our elusive friend, Rich Timbre!

The final clip includes them all: Direct sound + first reflections + later reflections. Timbre and clarity are both degraded relative to the third clip, but timbre is still better than the first and second clips.

Here’s the video, start at 13:19 and go to about 15:02, headphones or earbuds recommended:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84epTR2fyTY

Just for fun, go back to 14:20 and listen to that third clip again. How about THAT timbre?? Imo THAT is the target!

I believe the psychoacoustic principles demonstrated in David Griesinger's clips have validity that extends beyond the concert hall and into our home listening rooms.

As these clips show, EARLY reflections are detrimental, but LATER reflections can be quite beneficial, enriching timbre with no degradation of clarity. So "more room sound" CAN result in "more accurate timbre" IF it is done right.

Duke

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