No one actually knows how to lculate what speaker cable they need

Mr. glupson

I'll try to describe the current state of the speaker's cable industry. After all, if we want to know where we are heading, we need to know from where we are coming…

No speaker's cable maker, have a tiniest clue of what cable we need. They also do not know why one cable sounds better over the other. They have no idea what are the electrical (engineering) values that make one cable better over another. An absolute groping in the darkness. For that reason, they "invented" a lot of preposterous pleas to cover the misunderstanding and ignorance: directional cables, cryogenic treatment, cooper purity, skin effect, burn in and more. None would hold a scientific confirmation or any evidence. No other field using wires got such an attention. From NASA and space programs, to the highest level of airborne and military equipment, life saving medical equipment or cell phones. Only audio cables did.

Most speaker cables are made thin (12-14 AWG) because it is easy to use with spades and banana plugs that are common in the market. They won't go thinner, as it would be ridicules but they won't go thicker as it is difficult to do. So we ended up with an average 12-14 AWG, regardless of what we actually need.

At the same time, speaker cables (unfortunately also other cables) were priced absurdly high. As this is the holy grail of the audio industry. I must admit that marketing went well and the industry flourishes. A ridiculous situation with poor consequences.

Now comes the worst part, after understanding that the speaker cable makers were fooling us since dome of days. A speaker cable is actually crucial for a good sound. A poor cable can ruin it and it really does. At a time the cable makers were title their product as High End, they were practically destroying a good sound system that could sound terrific, with a "so wrong" cable that would prevent up to 50%-80% of its potential. If they call a cable that kills 50%-80% of the sound a high end cable, what should they call a cable that delivers the absolute 100%?

Unfortunately it is not their cable, so you have seen some of those say on previous posts. Such words, are shallow and do not tells you the truth. They only cover over a mediocre or bad product wrapped with pretentious words.

To show you the difference, between a ready purchased, reputed cable maker cable and a cable that is DIY (less complete in structure) but of the right electrical properties, here are two testimonies:

1. Mr. Wilson, who exchanged a Transparent Audio Laboratory 14 AWG 12 feet long cable, that costs About $250, with a 0 AWG 2.5m long cable:

    

   "My initial impressions: It’s like having new speakers. The sound is pure and clean. Minute details are suddenly apparent. The range is amazing. Highs, mid-tones and a new bass that I didn’t know my speakers were capable of. I wonder now what I need the new … subwoofer for!

   It feels that for all these years my speakers were being chocked and suddenly they can breathe and have their full voice.  

   To say I’m happy about my new speaker cables is an understatement. I’m thrilled. Thank you for building these superbly engineered cables to unleash the full potential of my home sound system".

    

2. Mr. keppertup who replaced a 16 AWG 1.5n long cable with a 0 AWG cable of the same length, that cost him $57.00 ($45 plus shipping):

    

   "The results are stunning.  The amount of undistorted energy filling the room, is jaw dropping.  I keep turning up the volume to levels that previously irritated my ears, and experience no irritation.  In the modified lyrics of B.B. King, “The shrill is gone.”  My wife is hearing new detail in cuts she has listened to many times before".

 

No other components or placement were involved, only one speaker cable over the other. This kind of testimony reflects my say of a maker so called "Hi End" speaker cable, replaced with an unlabeled cable that delivers 100% and not only 20% or 50%. I would grade those testimonies as 10/10.

This may not be that dramatic to all. If those testimonies were on the upper side of the scale, Mr. conradnash had a experience like 7/10. Not bad at all for that kind of investment.

I look at it, as I'm holding in my left hand, the speaker cables industry, with all that history and tell and my theory and cables made accordingly in my right hand. This is a clue of where we are heading, and from where we are coming.

Let me share a thought with you. When anyone starts saying no one else in an entire industry has a clue, but he and he alone, then that person has lost all credibility. It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that you alone possess the knowledge and integrity needed for correct speaker cable design. You are saying only you have that knowledge and integrity. Only you!

That is a remarkable thought and perhaps so remarkable as to expose your personal shortcoming. We all have shortcomings and yours has just been exposed more clearly than ever before in this thread. You must see the absurdity in your proclamation that you alone have the needed integrity and wisdom? I hope you can see and own it. A measure of humility would go a long way here.

This industry has many brilliant minds. Yes, many who hold advanced degrees, have personal integrity and a sincere passion for extracting the best sound possible from a stereo system. You are not the sole person with such a resume and righteous motive.

You seem like like a smart and well educated man. In an audio world full of ideas I and others are opened minded enough to consider and try out your idea. That has not changed for me. However what has changed for me is my assessment of your wisdom and perhaps grip on reality.

b4icu
No speaker’s cable maker, have a tiniest clue of what cable we need. They also do not know why one cable sounds better over the other. They have no idea what are the electrical (engineering) values that make one cable better over another. An absolute groping in the darkness. For that reason, they "invented" a lot of preposterous pleas to cover the misunderstanding and ignorance: directional cables, cryogenic treatment, cooper purity, skin effect, burn in and more. None would hold a scientific confirmation or any evidence. No other field using wires got such an attention. From NASA and space programs, to the highest level of airborne and military equipment, life saving medical equipment or cell phones. Only audio cables did.

>>>>>>>What a drama queen! In the first place you act as though all cable manufacturers are colluding or choreographing some sort of conspiracy designed to trick young naive audiophiles. But that is far from the truth since cable manufactures - in reality, not your paranoid fantasy - tend to develop and evolve their own theories and manufacturing processes over a long period of time based on their own experience. They rarely agree with each other. Many cable makers employ cryogenics, but some don’t. Most cable makers probably don’t control directionality. And there are many differences in purity and type of metal conductor among and within cable makers. You appear to be, judging by your own words, the poster child for anti audiophile naysayers.

Further, there is no requirement for “scientific confirmation,” as you call it. The most obvious mistake in your reasoning is that audio is the only field that is interested in how cables sound. capish? So you can throw out all the other things, military, NASA, hospitals, whatever. Follow? If you told the military or NASA they must use uber thick cables as you suggest they would laugh you out of the office.

grannyring & geoff: He has 3 people that have tried and approved of his design & theory. After many posts and thousands of words posted over less than a month, the OP has the proof, no doubt and all other cable companies are bunk. It is now fact, end of arguement. I would not be surprised that ofter a few weeks, the three that engaged in the test, will have different speaker cable in their systems.

Mr. grannyring

Sorry for your long post. I know it is hard to accept when someone claim such a thing. I had asked this question, of what shall be the right speaker cable for long and never been answered properly. So I took things in my own hand and figured it out. When that happened, I realized how much the industry leaks knowledge on the subject. I never said that the people in this industry are not smart or gifted. I only say that none put the effort to find out the truth over this subject. It is most likely, that if they would, they might come out with something. But so far, they didn’t.

I would expect that you prove me wrong by bringing up someone (from the industry) that has the knowhow. From that long list of smart people, you proclaim from the industry, you can’t point at one who has the solution. You don’t for a reason. So you don’t have even one to prove me wrong. On the other hand, those testimonies prove me right. The more will do it and share, the better. At the same time, the cable market is not doing any good to this disturbing question either: What is the right cable for me?

Even thou you put it a bit awkward I am not shamed but proud of it. I am sure that if you would do this discovery, you might have been proud too. I am even more proud I could help already some to get a way better sound with their DIY cable. You have no idea, what those testimonies mean to me. With a little help, people all over, in the US, Canada and the UK did it and they are happy. I’ll remind you that it is all for free.