Home Theater Receiver recommendations for B&W 803S?

Good morning!

Yep, so much for the budget! Heh. I felt like another amp/preamp combo unit might be worth spending $2k on....but I already feel like I'm getting way more value by using separates, so that's why I'm cool with spending more. (And, I got really good prices all these pieces of kit!) So...Budget? What budget? ;)

@caphill - You're absolutely right about the amp. It feels like the 803's breathed a sigh of relief, like they could finally be unleashed and have just opened up so much more. I'm so glad you guys talked me into it! ;)

I hooked up the 8802A yesterday and listened to a few tracks on CD. I then swapped in my NHTM2 with the new-to-me HTM1, and we watched the Season 2 finale of West World.

The Marantz seems to be working great - I updated the firmware and have gone through all the settings, except for Audyssey setup.  The seller didn't have the Audyssey microphone, but I picked one up on eBay for $20 and hopefully it'll arrive today.

[Sidenote, for anyone searching: The Audyssey DM-A505Z microphone, which came with my Denon, is NOT interchangeable with the ACM1H or ACM1HB microphones, which the Marantz uses. I confirmed this via email with Audyssey.] 

Initial reactions:

For music, the clarity and instrument separation is definitely there, but I feel like it's lacking on "visceral impact."  I felt like I had to keep turning up the volume, but then I realized my face was scrunched up a little bit, like I was straining to listen.  With the Denon+Rotel combo, I didn't have that feeling - I was just enveloped in the sound (though I played it at pretty high volume too).  The sound stage felt a bit more compressed laterally, with more things coming from the center and not nearly as wide. It felt a bit more recessive front/back as well.  It was a subtle difference, but it's definitely not there yet.  (I was listening in 2-channel stereo mode direct, no sub.)  Perhaps I need to tweak my speaker placement for the Marantz?

@auxinput - you said " I suspect it will be more fuller sounding with more impact as well." I definitely agree with fuller sounding - in a big way...but the impact actually feels lower to me. If feels like the image is a little further away, or a bit recessive somehow. 

I hate to say it, but my immediate reaction was that I wanted to go back to the Denon+Rotel combo!  :/

I wonder if it's also now revealing flaws in my old Panasonic Blu-Ray player, which I was using for the CDs. (I was also transmitting the audio to the preamp via HDMI.)

For West World, it definitely sounded HUGE which was great... and having the HTM1 in the center was awesome -- the blending of the Left/Center/Right made for a much more seamless experience (the HTM2 always felt like it was struggling compared to the 803's). But it was also a bit boomy at times in the mid-ranges; it felt it bit _too_ full. 

My surround speakers (B&W DM301's) are tucked in the upper corners of the room, pointed towards the center of the room -- and our couch is against the back wall. Not ideal, but it's what I've got.  It provides a pretty atmospheric surround, but there was one point last night where the sound of a vehicle approaching felt like it came from directly behind us, and made me do a double-take...I've never heard that before in this room. I'll give credit to the Marantz on that one!

I just realized this morning that it may have been applying the previous owner's Audyssey correction; I'll double-check that later today. Perhaps that will fix the boominess. I might also just do a full factory reset on the Preamp (should've done that first!) and then reconfigure things again...just to be sure there are no other old settings interfering.

In the meantime, I'm curious to know your thoughts on my initial reactions! :)

Wow.  I'm really sorry that you felt like you went backwards in some ways with the Marantz.  When I tested the 8805 in my system, I was using all my very high end power cords and interconnects and everything.  The only thing I did not do was upgrade the fuse in Marantz to a Hi-Fi Tuning silver (which is something I would have totally done).  We only had the Marantz in my system for one afternoon.  When I say "it had good impact", I mean it had good punch in the midbass and midrange impact.  A good amount of punch-you-in-the-chest impact and stuff like snare drums hit with authority.  The high frequencies were definitely rolled off, but it was not that bad.  Your situation could be from stock fuse and power cords and stuff.  It could also be that your using the previous owner's Audessey setup, and I would love to hear if this was the case.  Doing a factory reset is always a recommended thing because you don't know what the existing configuration is doing to your sound.  That being said, I will make comments based on what you're hearing now.
----
So, I guess the first question is to whether or not you want to work with the Marantz to try to get it to sound better.  This could be just adding a silver fuse into the Marantz.  But it could also mean you need to upgrade the power cords and possibly the interconnects.  This could mean spending hundreds of dollars on "tweaking your system for the Marantz".  We just won't know until we get there - doing one step at a time.
---
When you say you "kept feeling like you had to turn up the volume and had to strain to hear certain things", I think I know what you mean.  If the equipment is too warm/slow sounding, it will cause the upper midrange and highs to become too soft and laid back.  This will prevent the more subtle sounds from cutting through, especially when there is a lot of different sounds going on, and you may not feel you're getting the full impact of sound crispness and clarity and sharpness.
-----
The first tweak for the Marantz (if you want to try working with it) is to upgrade the fuse.  Do you feel comfortable taking off the top cover of the Marantz?  It's very easy.  The top cover can be removed just by removing the screws that hold it in place.  The fuse or fuses should be on a small board that is very close to the power cord socket.  On these processors, it is usually a small fuse, but you should check.  If the fuse is less than 1" long, then it is the small 5x20 size. If it is longer than 1", then it is the large 6.3x32 size.  Parts Connexion is selling the older Hi-Fi Tuning Silverstar for 60% off - $16 for a small fuse.  They have a couple of the 1.8A left (I recommend getting a 2A fuse if possible).  This silver fuse should improve the clarity and impact a good amount.  If this doesn't get you all the way, we can still upgrade the power cord as well, which will make a difference too.  The goal would be to get as much silver elements into the power supply system as possible.  Please be aware that the silver fuse will require a 7-10 day burn-in before it settles down.

I had originally recommended the Marantz because I am a firm believer in discrete analog stages.  It is pretty amazing that Marantz can deliver a processor that has 14 fully discrete analog output stages for $4k retail!!!  To get an 8 channel discrete processor, you have to look at the Bryston SP3 which retails for $9.8k or Krell S1200U which retailed $12.5k!!
-----
In all of my testing with different circuits and listening to many different systems, the devices that use op amps can sound good, but they just do not "sing" like a discrete circuit.  However, it could be that you might want to cut your losses with the Marantz and re-sell it.  In that case, I can think of a few options:

----
Yamaha CX-A5100.  This will probably get you back closer to the sound of the Denon.  New is $2500, but used are in the $1800-2000 range.  There is actually a used one on audiogon for $1345.  Obviously, no discrete analog stages, but it may likely sound better than your Denon receiver.
-----
Anthem AVM 60.  This is probably the highest resolution processor in the budget range (before going to the Krell Foundation).  retail $3k.  Used in the $2200 to $2600 range.  There's a "new in box" one on ebay for $2488.
----
Or go back to using your Denon receiver as a preamp for now.  You seemed very happy with the sound, but realize that there are some compromises to be had (i.e. there were some things with the Marantz that out-shined the Denon). 

Oh, no need to apologize!  I'm pretty sure we're going to be able to get he Marantz to blow away the Denon. I wouldn't be surprised if the Marantz is revealing other weak links in my setup.

I'm not opposed to tinkering with fuses and power cords..but let me first try the factory reset (and Audyssey configuration) and see how it fares after that.

Regarding power -- please try not to laugh: I have all my components plugged in to a verrrry old Monster Power HTS1000 (circa 1999...), running off a 6' extension cord (except for the Rotel, which is in a separate outlet). The outlet most convenient to my electronics is behind a bookcase, so I can't easily change out that extension cord; and I had to use an extension cord with a flat plug, to get the bookcase against the wall...sigh.

My understanding is that surge suppressors usually only have 10-year lifespan, so it's probably time to change out that power strip anyway?

Oh hey, maybe I can get a few bucks for my power strip!  Heh.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis93f69-monster-power-hts1000-powercenter-free-ship-and-pp-ac-con...