2. analog
  3. 139734-976

The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






daveyf
inna
7,923 posts
 
So much emotions around f. cartridges and often no less f. dealers. Don't we have anything better to discuss ? In any case, table/arm and phono are much more important. Put any modern $1000 MM in great arm with great table and phono and it will be capable of more than most can hear. 
Vintage cartridges are only for experts or if you have friends who are experts. Besides, there wouldn't be enough for everyone.
If you think that better MMs don't have enough speed and resolution you are wrong, check the rest of your chain and the wall current.
Anyway, tape is the only true audiophile medium, except direct to disc recordings, don't bother too much.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@daveyf 

Your preference for vintage cartridges is interesting. Personally, I have absolutely zero interest in them regardless of the price, or the reputation.
Here’s one reason why, I have a very good a’phile friend who about a year ago decided he wanted to mount several so called ’ top condition’ vintage cartridges on his removable headshell arm and listen to see how..and if, he preferred the old models to his near new Lyra Atlas.

I like my vintage cartridges better than my ex ZYX Premium 4D SB - that was the most expensive modern High-End LOMC that i ever had and while it was a good cartridge (brand new from authorized US dealer), but for 5 times higher retail price than equal or even better vintage performers. I believe our @halcro compared his nice vintage carts to Lyra and many more morern LOMC and posted about it on audiogon in another thread. 



tangramca
62 posts
 
@br3098 thanks for a dealer perspective. It is easy to have biases based on (limited by) personal experience. I live in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). One of the best analog guys in our area is an easy 30 minute drive for me. What do you believe is a sales model that does work/could work where customers can make an informed decision prior to the purchase of something that is as expensive as a Rolex and that wears out with use? Not disposable but also not maintanance-free either. Seems like there is room for dealers and customers to meet somewhere in the middle. 
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
3,086 posts
 
@tangramca Another post that I totally agree with. The dealers like the current situation with high end cartridges just fine, thank you very much. Why wouldn’t they? After all, no inventory to stock, easy to ship with minimal expense, no return policies, very unlikely repair and after sale hassles, huge margins, probability that the unit will be damaged in the future....how many of the high end cartridges actually come with a stylus guard? --leading to another sale, no easy repair for the consumer...another large profit center; and a simple ordering process for them....

No wonder, IMHO, that there has been some considerable push-back here, and on other threads/forums, when this nice ’golden goose’ has been threatened! Whining, only from people that clearly have something to lose--and that’s become VERY obvious.
larryi
4,350 posts
 
tangramca,

A reasonable approach for the situation mentioned by br3098 is for the customer to agree to pay the going rate for a house call.  In my area, that is $120 to $150 an hour.  So, it would be something like $840 dollars.  If the customer chooses to buy the expensive cartridge, a portion, if not all of that amount could be rebated.  If not, the buyer would be absorbing a painfully high amount, but, it would still be better than paying thousands for a cartridge that is not loved.  Given how much the value of a used cartridge depreciates, that amount is still much less than buying a cartridge and then selling it as used.

Because I have a very good relationship with a couple of local dealers, I got to buy my cartridges with a right to return them if I did not like them.  These were not dealer demonstration cartridges, these where new cartridges ordered for me.  I never returned the cartridges so the dealer did not lose out.  This sort of arrangement is possible if there trust is developed with a dealer.

When I was in the market for a high-end linestage many years ago, I went to a dealer who carried two of the brands I was interested in.  He did not have the flagship models in his store that I wanted to audition.  What he offered was to buy the flagship models of both brands on the promise by me to buy one or the other.  This would work out for him financially.  A dealer gets a substantially lower price for the first purchase of any model of gear from the distributor or manufacturer (this is to encourage purchase of a store demonstration unit).  If I bought one of either models, the cost of both would be covered by the purchase.  As it turned out, I like the first model he got in and bought it, so he never had to order the model from the other brand.  I got a good discount in the deal, even without asking for it.  This is how an arrangement has to be--it has to be financially worthwhile for both parties.
More to discover