The Great Speaker Quest


My initial purpose for this post was to have help in finding speakers that would end the search. That said, I've been reading in these forums long enough to understand I may never get off this ride. I suppose I'm looking for some conversation, some education, and some ideas on what to try next. I've been in this hobby for several years now and I believe that I've covered a lot of ground in my learning in a short period of time. Excuse me if my descriptions are lacking, however.

Particular model recommendations are welcome, of course, but I would prefer brand recommendations or help articulating my preferences. An answer that goes something like "It seems your ear is sensitive to XXXX aspect(s) of the music that you're finding in this speaker. You may want to listen to X brand or X model because..." would be great.

Despite having owned some more expensive speakers, my current budget is around $1k used. I might be willing to stretch that a bit at some point.
I listen to all types of music and love female vocals in particular. A little warmth in the bass is appreciated but the "bloat" that I find in most floor standing speakers is not. Driver integration and coherence -like- I find in monitor speakers seem to be key for me too (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1242687419&openflup&1&4#1)
If this link does not work you can access it through my name. I think it helps complete the picture.

I like to actively and passively listen to music: Something that images but doesn't require perfect setup or listening position.

Please note that these are just my observations in often quite imperfect setup conditions. No insult is intended and my opinions/experiences are just mine, and for the most part still ultimately mutable. Feel free to agree/disagree. Both are helpful as I develope my ear more.

Most of the speakers have been paired with lots of different equipment. I realize using words like "dated", "musical" and others, is very limiting. Perhaps you can help me find better ones. Additionally, I apologize for the length. I was hoping to paint as complete a picture as I could. Thanks much.

Owned (a partial list):

Klipsch KG 5.2: Loved the way these effortlessly filled the space with sound. There is something about the presentation of these that I like. Efficiency? Dispersion? More dynamic than I need but a little extra never hurt. When turned up the horn just started to sound "honky" to me. Ouch!

Canton CT-800: Bruisers. Dynamic but sounded dated.

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1: Liked most of what I heard but lacked in dynamics. They seemed accurate but not very mus
Remind me of the Energy RC-10s in many respects.

NHT ST-4: Loved the imaging and speed. Exciting to listen to but the top end was a bit too hot for me and the bass on these was a mess. I played with them a lot to try to fix that. Long story and a common one from what I read.

Mirage Ohm 5(not factory adjusted for small spaces): Waaay too much bass (not their fault). I didn't like the muddy or indistinct soundstage of the dipoles. They just sounded strange to me moving about the room or turning my head. Eerie.

Duntech Marquis: Instruments and soundstage sounded spooky real! They seemed to lack excitement on driving music but that -could- have been my equipment. In the end they were way too revealing for me. I could pick out the flaws in EVERY recording. Seriously. Most of my recordings are not audiophile quality and sounded just plain bad. I was sad to let these go.

Thiel CS 3.5 and 2.2s: The 3.5s just sounded slow and dated. Liked how open the top-end sounded, however. 2.2s: Liked how natural these sounded. Big improvement over the 3.5s. Just couldn't make them get up and move on music with rhythm and pace. The metal tweeter on these just never sounded right... a little too brash.

B&W v202, 602v1, 601v2: Could play all music decently well which I liked. v2.2s: Cabinet resonances. 602: Ouch! Bright! 601: Tweeter much tamed. Liked the warmth of the bass on all of these but not (what felt like) the inaccuracy or bloat.

Energy RC-10: These speakers I don't think do anything wrong, but just didn't sound very musical to me. Kept these for a while until I listened to some Totem Model 1s that just outclassed them in almost every respect (except dynamics).

Totem Dreamcatcher monitors: Loved these speakers. Liked them better than the Arros even. A little too hot on top but imaged amazingly. I think I just like the presentation of monitors over floor standers. Desire something more dynamic. Read about Model 1s below, please.

Totem Arro: Really great speakers too. The 4" driver just doesn't cut it for me in regards to dynamics. Something just sounds more "right" to me about the Dreamcatcher monitors and the Model 1, too. Cabinet resonances of the Arro?

Spendor S3/5se: Perhaps I didn't give these enough of a chance to break in. I only had them for about 50 hours. There was an accuracy and rightness to the sound of instruments and voices but they sounded a bit closed in and unexciting to me. They just didn't sound right for pop music in particular.

Dynaudio Audience 50: Decided to buy these after being captivated by the Focus 110's (below). Amazingly dynamic and exciting. Finally "enough" volume from a bookshelf for me. Missing in resolution and refinement compared to the Totems and Dynaudio Focus'.

Listened to but didn't own:

Totem Model 1: The first speaker that really made me say: "Now this is the kinda thing I'm looking for!" Musical... resolving... beautiful highs... Just not dynamic enough for Pop/rock. These started me looking through the Totem line.

Dynaudio Focus 110: The first speaker I heard that I think topped the Totem Model 1 for me. Exciting, fast/pace, detailed, coherent, rich/dense tones. I could listen to a single speaker, playing a single organ tone, and be enchanted. The paired equipment was not even very good. I could close my eyes and face directly toward the speaker. It's was as if a complete painting or photo was presented in front of me (from even a single speaker). I listened to several Paradigm monitors(even the reference series) next to these and I had the sense that the picture they were painting was diffuse and kept moving, filling in holes that were missing and un-filling ones previously filled in constant rotation. Does anyone have a word for this?

Doesn't mean I'm sold on Dynaudios or Totems, just that I liked the balance I heard of resolution, excitement, pace/speed... and would like recommendation within these lines or of other lines to consider.

Thanks again!
128x128eyediver
Tvad: Thank you much for the helpful education. That is very useful information in my quest. While I've mated most of the speakers with various amplifiers to try and train my ear, I look forward to doing some listening tests with these specifics in mind. Right now I have the Cayin, the Onix, the McCormack, the NAD320BEE, and the Trendz. I love the Onix and the Trendz in particular. Would love to find an integrated that would combine the things I like about these, and drive any speaker that crosses my path. This sounds like a whole new thread however.

Johnnyb53: You got me fired up with this one, Johnny.
"Getting the model name (Ohm 5 vs. OM-5).... wrong indicated to me that you hadn't fully considered what the speaker was and what it could do."

What could getting the name wrong possible have to do with full consideration? I had a traumatic head injury a few years ago and I have had trouble with my memory since... particularly names of people and things. Truth be told, my memory for such things was not good to begin with. I forget friend's names, whom I've known for ten years, while standing right in front of them... X-girlfriends even! This doesn't mean that I don't have consideration for them. I'm as sensitive about my handicap as you are about your speakers it seems. ;)
I appreciate your willingness to disagree with me and educate me in the process. I will keep an open mind about them if you feel they might fit my bill. I certainly didn't know that speakers could be so sensitive to placement("within an inch")!
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Hey Eyediver, ain't we a pair!

I've had two heart attacks and live with congestive heart failure. Where your
injury affects your memory, my heart failure leaves me with lower physical
reserves and I get impatient and grumpy more easily. It's also affected my
short term memory, though my long term memory is still strong. Please
accept my apologies for my impatience and crankiness; I'll be more vigilant
in future exchanges.

Anyway, I've been thinking more about your tastes and frustrations with your
speaker quest. It sounds like your room may be difficult for setup. I see
you're surprised that speaker location can be sensitive, but the room is
actually the most influential component in the signal chain. That's why you
can't just try a new speaker and expect it to fix things without experimenting
a bit. I'm being truthful that my Mirage M5si's needed to be adjusted for two
inches toe-in at my present house and had to be facing straight ahead in the
last one.

It takes more time and patience to get a floor standing speaker to work at its
best in any room. The bigger bass output has a more profound room
interaction. Perhaps your room has lots of reflective surfaces or two
dimensions that are nearly the same, making for a stronger room resonance
at a single frequency. That may explain why you're trying to get the sound of
a minimonitor with its precision of imaging and placement, but with more
bass extension.

If your room is indeed problematic, it may help to get stand-mounted
speakers and small powered subwoofers. Then you can experiment with the
placement and output level of the sub(s) to get the best blend in your room.
I have not seen the description of "Dated" before as you applied it to the Canton CT800s and wondered if you could describe that sound in a different way. I am thinking about buying a pair of CT800s.

I would recommend you listen to some newer Cantons in the ERGO series, I love those and they are at least 10 years newer than the CT800s, hopefully would not sound "dated" to you.
Jack