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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
frogman
7,364 posts
 
A couple of follow up thoughts, if I may.  While I was writing my previous comments, when listening to the X1 two things came to mind, good horn speakers and my Decca London.  I chose the comparison to horns beacause I was comparing the AT to Maggies and wanted to keep it consistent.  So, I agree wih noromance, similar to my impression of a classic Decca sound in some ways.  

The other thought was remembering a disagreement that I had on Raul’s MM thread.  I think the disagreement was with Raul, but herhaps Chakster (sorry, both).  I had made the comment that my ATML 170-OCC sounded, in comparison to some of my other favorite cartridges, a little subdued dynamically; not as alive sounding as others.  I realize that that ATML180 is a different cartridge, but I wonder about this possible family trait.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@halcro well, there is a sticker on your box with updated information that your OCC version has a boron cantilever. I think the box is the same with the only difference that i have all info about Beryllium cantilever right on the box, not on the sticker (there is no stickers on my boxes). Also the OCC box with computer code is definitely from the 90s, not from the 80s like the LC-OFC box without any computer codes. 

Styli are interchangeable, but visually those cantilevers are the same, because they are both gold-plated. 

Maybe AT covered any information about Beryllium after this metal was found toxic and prohibited? Maybe this is why there is a sticker. Also we don't know what is under the sticker, probably different information. 

Anyway, this information is a proof. OCC comes with gold-plated Beryllium tapered cantilever, LC-OFC comes with Gold-Plated Boron Pipe cantilever.  

There might be a version of the  AT-ML180 OCC with Boron too. 

At the moment i have only one AT-ML180, my version is LC-OFC with Boron cantilever.  


halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
when listening to the X1 two things came to mind, good horn speakers and my Decca London.  I chose the comparison to horns beacause I was comparing the AT to Maggies and wanted to keep it consistent.

I agree the tonal balance of the X1 is reminiscent of the London Decca Reference in its seductive midrange warmth...but the LDR has a narrower soundstage than the X1 and its 'highs' are not as shimmering or transparent.
I will do an LDR comparison on the FR-66S tonearm shortly.

I've had a few AT cartridges (AT-155Lc, AT-20SS, AT-150ANV, AT-13Ea, AT-33MONO, AT-ML180) and they do share a 'House Sound' IMO....
Whilst they may indeed have a neutral, linear frequency response...I have never liked their high-frequency 'edginess'.
With their Signet branding for the US market.....they tamed this aspect of their presentation and produced (to my ears) a warmer, more 'emotional' overall 'sound'.
slaw's avatar
slaw
20,442 posts
 
@halcro ,

I didn't consider this a contest either. My comment was made because of the fact that as humans, we can be swayed by lots of things, that may ultimately cause our perspective to be altered, not to mention, one could say, "Yeah since halcro said another was correct, of coarse you'll give the correct answer as well".
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
^^  Halcro. Yes indeed ! Now I would like to take this opportunity to introduce you the good old SHURE Ultra 500 cartridge ... Because that´s exactly what SHURE managed to achieve in their V15V-MR design and that goal culminating in the SHURE Ultra 500 in particular. No hint of `edginess´ and truly a more sophisticated HF presentation with more nuanced and yes a `warmer´ and if you like more `emotional´ (natural) sound. I discover that wonderful sound nearly thirty years ago : ) And sadly could not have managed to find a cartridge that could outperform my Ultra 500, in any aspect really, not to mention that HF area. I have AT-ART9 modern superb MC design, AT-ML180, Grace F-14/boron-MR, I had one special Dynavector... even that ASTATIC flag ship (Raul´s find) : ^)
And of course, the frequency response is linear with appropriate capacitance values, very low for the original beryllium cantilever and very high for modern SAS cantilever explained by David (dlaloum). And as David says, the Ultra sounds good everywhere, mediocre decks/arms and superlative TT compos/ designs `Ö´
Still, of course, the AT-ML180 is a superlative design with its miniature ML stylus tip giving a very low effective mass this is one of crucial things in the very finest cartridge designs, and this actually is the reason for the very best AT MM cartridge. Indeed this AT has a very neutral, very linear sound, and thus maybe even the most natural, for some people at least.

Halcro, I would gladly see an Ultra 500 in your collection hopefully in some day soon and hear your thoughts about ...

Very interesting thread indeed, keep them coming.

Best regards,
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