2. analog
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Hear my Cartridges....đŸŽ¶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....đŸ€Ș
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....đŸ€—
128x128halcro
frogman
7,364 posts
 
Further comparisons would be very interesting.  Thank you, Halcro.

We all have somewhat different ways of describing certain characteristics of sound and it might be beneficial and more meaningful if there were, if not consensus, at least a good understanding of how others use certain terms/descriptions.  Speaking for myself and acknowledging that tonal characteristics do affect our perception of a component’s ability to project the emotion component in music to a degree, I tend to separate that ability from tonal aspects.  What I mean is that I find that a cartridge can be very “warm” and still be emotionally uninvolving, or “lean” and still be very “alive” and involving dynamically.  For me emotional involvement has less to do with ability with tonal issues and more so with dynamics.  A cartridge can be more “linear” and more tonally natural than another, but not as natural dynamically.  If forced to choose I will always choose the component that is more dynamically natural since I find that it is far easier to tweak for tonal naturalness.  

Interesting thread, thanks.
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma
899 posts
 
Maybe it’s just me, but I find it to be oxymoronic to be asked to judge the performance of anolog equipment over a digital platform. 
frogman
7,364 posts
 
Yeah, it’s you 😉.  Kidding, of course.  Judging?  Hardly.  I don’t think anyone here will take any perceived traits or differences as being anything even close to the last word.  What IS interesting is how some traits and consistencies can be perceived in spite of the limitations of the medium or the technology involved.  In my opinion it can potentially serve as a starting point for judging, through logic or extrapolation,  what might be heard on one’s setup.  For instance, I had never heard a Victor cartridge before, but had read a lot of opinion about them and was certainly very intrigued.  All the attempts at describing their sound that I had read did not give me any indication of what might be a “family sound”; and I do believe most cartridges have a family sound.  I now have a not insignificant idea of how it might sound on my setup and I am even more intrigued.  
unreceivedogma's avatar
unreceivedogma
899 posts
 
Frogman, there are so many variables that even when I hear a cartridge demo in an audio store, I am still at best only 50% confident (in other words, a crap shoot) as to what it’s going to sound like with my other components in my own listening environment.

I think you are kidding yoyrself.
frogman
7,364 posts
 
I don’t think so; at all.  It’s very simple, really.  Unless it is a total coincidence that I heard certain sonic traits that are similar to what Halcro hears on his system, or Halcro is lying, then the exercise can have value as “a starting point”; especially in the absence of the availability of cartridges to actually try oneself.  Or, at the very least, it can serve as an interesting and potentially fun exercise that may surprise.
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