... POORLY RECORDED SONGS THAT ...

@johnto, recording Cream (and Hendrix) WAS a challenge for the old school engineers in ’67, but it wasn’t because of the drums. Clapton and Hendrix hadn’t learned that their stage amps (Marshall stacks) were not appropriate or best for recording. Jimi was probably still recording with them when he died, but Eric soon enough learned that a small combo amp (low power, a single 12" driver) makes for much better recorded sound that a high powered amp and 8 drivers (what is in a stack). The amps/speakers were so loud at such a low volume setting on the amp, that to get "good tone" (tube distortion), they had to use stomp boxes, which simulate the natural distortion produced by a low-powered tube amp, at which they are only partially successful. Hendrix and Clapton sounded much better live than on record.

Recording Ginger Baker’s drums was no problem; Buddy Rich (and Keith Moon) played MUCH louder than Baker. As for his drum sound, that is of course a matter of taste. Levon Helm’s drums and cymbals on The Band’s Music From Big Pink album (recorded in early ’68) sound the way I like drums and cymbals to sound. Ringo Starr’s taste aligns with mine, but you are entitled to your opinion.

My opinion on the sound of Baker’s drums and cymbals is not based on hearing them through hi-fi speakers alone; I saw and heard him in Cream twice, in ’67 and ’68. Live, his drums and cymbals sounded just as they did and do on my system. That system has, over the years, included McIntosh, ARC, Atma-Sphere, NYAL, Herron, AVA, Levinson, Esoteric, and Music Reference electronics, AR, Thorens, VPI, and Townshend Audio tables, SME, Decca, Well Tempered, Formula 4, Rega, Helius, and Zeta arms, Decca, Grado, Shure, assorted mc, and London cartridges, and Quad (original), Magneplanar (Tympani T-I, T-IVa), Fulton (Model J), ESS (Transtatic I), Infinity (RS-1b), and Eminent Technology (LFT 4, LFT-8b) loudspeakers, and Stax (Lambda Pro) and Beyer Dynamic headphones. I don’t think "the problem is in the system you are (I am) listening on", it’s in your taste in drum and cymbal sound ;-) .

Hi n80

I'm glad your liking Sound & Color more, I messed around with it off and on today. Pretty cool recording! Thanks for turning me on to it.

I'm not having any problem with the bass, kind of reminds me of "FUN". Once tuned in a little it's an electronic membrane type of sound. I can see where someone would say distorted till they get it dialed in, but when tuned in it blends nicely.

I'm able to turn mine up or down without any issues as long as I adjust the bottom slightly.

michael

Hi n80

"So would you say that with the right system tuning the quality of the recording, in terms of DR compression and loudness, is of no real consequence?"

DRD and quality of a recording are two different issues that somehow got mixed together. Or at least mixed together in the mind of the guy spending bucks on a typical HEA system after "discrete systems" were pushed by the reviewers and certain designers. Basically the whole discrete system era was incredibly flawed and High End Audio has never recovered, they just keep digging the hole deeper until HEA is no more. BTW the reviewers who no longer review admit to the failed push of non-flexible systems.

The interesting part for myself is watching the industry starting to turn back to Tuning. There has always been listeners who understand that all recordings have their own unique set of values that require tuning. Take almost any recording and give it to 100 users. You'll find that this recording will rank differently depending on how someone's system is tuned in. What is not universally understood, with the current HEA audiophile, is that most of the audiophiles have moved on from discrete "one sound system" setups and from these forums and magazines that support them.

HEA (High End Audio) has been in rapid decline mode since the late 1990's. It's not because recordings are bad, it's because a system that only produces one sound can't play all these different sounds without some type of adjusting. In other words there's no auto adjust in "discrete audio" only thousands of different sounding systems, and the pushers of these systems. This doesn't make any component good or bad, or better or worse. It simply means if your going to play a large range of recording types you need a method of tuning that allows you the flexibility needed.

Michael

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/