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Maggies with no Sub: Fantastic surprise

OK, I have had Maggies for years, and always had subs with them: Vandersteens, DefTech, Velodyne, JL Audio, Sunfire, SVS Sound, etc...

When using set up software I have measure the lower end to 35 hz consistantly, so then I would take a ton of time and effort placing the subs in the correct spots, and letting the sub or controller (SMS-1) set up the crossover for different locations. I was always looking for that perfect integration for both stereo and LFE effects, so I finally bought a Rel B1 and I am awaiting it's delivery.

In the mean time, I have for the first time ever, been listening to the Maggie 3.6R's without a sub, and I am shocked. My God, there's a lot of bass there. I have a lot of juice going to them (Cary CAD 500 MB's) and Mye Stands, but wow, they really sound great. I'm kind of sorry I bought the Rel now. I think I may just buy a cheap sub for LFE effects on movies and just leave the Maggie's on their own for Stereo.

Anyone else have this experience??

It may all be amp related, but I will now dispute anyone who says Maggies have no low end authority. I am shocked that much of the low end bass I thought was coming from the subs over the years was actually coming from the Maggies!!
macdadtexas
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,213 posts
 
I owned larger maggies for 20 years and ran them off higher power SS amplification and never felt compelled to use a sub.

Having said that, I've heard newer top of the line Maggies running off a fairly juicy Rogue tube power amp with a small well-matched Rel sub and it seemed to be a plus in this scenario.
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
I love my Maggies, and agree that their bass response is most often OK without subwoofer help. Just the same, I have a very elaborate built-in custom 3 channel (fronts) subwoofer system. Three 15" drivers and 3 12" drivers individually driven by six 500 watt amps.

The Maggie problem as I see it is lack of what people call "punch". Cones are good at "punch". "Punch" is what makes your stomach uneasy when the organ sounds that 32 foot pipe, and what makes your trouser legs flap when the brass band plays a Sousa march.

My subwoofer array is capable of higher frequencies than the normal subwoofer, and is, I believe, very well "integrated" with the Maggies. I say this because I can play a pink noise signal and hear no change in the overall sound as I sweep the crossover frequency from 40 Hz to around 400 Hz. However, what I am doing when I change the frequency is to transition between cone and panel drivers. I vary the crossover frequency so as to match the speaker system to the music.

I suppose that what I have is more accurately called an "alternate woofer" system, which happens to have extended LF range.

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,213 posts
 
Yes, "punch" is the thing with Maggies. If you want "punch", then there are better choices. Otherwise, if you can set them up properly, hard to beat!

Pop/hard rock is the genre where I felt the Maggies had the hardest time getting it right.
martykl
3,578 posts
 
Eldartford,

What frequency do you cross at? I agree with your notion of "punch" and further agree that subs usually work best as woofer/subs, rather than as pure sub bass extension "enhancers".

I suspect that most systems will get the greatest benefit out of subs between 35hz (not too much music below that frequency) and 80 to 120hz (depending on the room). I use EQ below 80hz, but - in the right room - merely choosing optimal subwoofer placement can win half the battle.

Marty
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Martykl...I spent quite a few frustrating years searching for the "correct" crossover frequency. Then the light dawned! There is no correct frequency. It depends on the music.

I have an electronic crossover which lets me vary the crossover frequency very easily...turn a knob. If I am listening to classical chamber music I usually go down to 40 Hz (which is where my MG1.6 quit). Brass bands and organ music sounds best if I turn my cones loose up to 300 Hz or so. (Remember, my "SW" is not limited to the usual SW frequency range, and my scheme probably would not work so well with the typical commercial SW. For most music I use 60-80 Hz, mostly to get this LF signal out of the Maggies so they do the midrange better.
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