@hdm I think it fairly obvious that you don’t believe in buying expensive cartridges. Reason I say that is if you did happen to spring for one of these, I seriously doubt you would want it compromised once it needed a retip by any of the non factory retippers. My previous Benz could be retipped by Soundsmith, ( although it doesn’t need a retip yet), but why would I go that route, I would end up with a cartridge that wouldn’t hold up to my old Benz...and therefore imo would be a kludge at best.
The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...
I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!
Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.
Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.
Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.
Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....
About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.
At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.
Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).
Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)
Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).
Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??
I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?
Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.
Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.
Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.
Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....
About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.
At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.
Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).
Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)
Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).
Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??
I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?
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- 319 posts total
I am having a hard time comprehending this...how is that the grey market vendors of high priced cartridges can not only beat retail prices easily, but also have plenty of supply? As an example, with Benz cartridges, there are a few grey market vendors ( one who is on this forum) who have plenty of supply, and yet the US dealers and reps tell us that these cartridges are now unobtanium. What gives? |
I have been away from the community for a very long time but I remember this cartridge quest when I was looking to replace my Benz Micro in 05............and yes I was unable to audition anything and my direction was influenced by readings, and audiogone. I ended up purchasing a Shelter 90X based primarily on dealer discussion/recommendation......so at this writing I am starting this quest again and it appears nothing has changed except the prices have risen |
@lewm Chakster, That photo of the cantilever/stylus on your Airy III is quite interesting. Didn’t Nandric indicate that pressure fitting of stylus to cantilever can only be done with an aluminum cantilever? Yet ZYX uses boron, I think. Or am I in error? This type of Boron cantilever is what Nakatsuka-San is using even on lower priced models, i’m sure high priced models also have same type of cantilever and same type of stylus mounting. This is what i can see on ZYX site on the pictures. Nandric is right about aluminum, but we don’t know the material of that collar on ZYX cantilever. Anyway remember Hollow Pipe Boron cantilevers made by Technics and laser etched technology to make a tiny hole in Boron to fit the diamond throght it (it was made in the ’70s by Matsushita). I know that ZYX Boron cantilever is rod, not pipe, but the collar may be a boron pipe or titanium pipe or whatever material (not necessary aluminum, because it’s black) ? It’s interesting, but aluminum collar on the oposite side of the Jico Boron cantilever looks like aluminum. But ZYX collar looks like Boron (it’s black). One metal collar (joint pipe) used by Jico to mount a Boron cantilever (Jico SAS stylus for my Technics 205c mk4), Axel did the same with Nagaoka boron cantilevers to rebuild technics 205c mk4, but it’s another story. The stylus is simply glued on Boron cantilever in both cases. Another collar used by Nakatsuka-San to mount his MicroRidge nude diamond right throught the pipe with minimum glue to reduce the mass. |
@daveyf I certainly wouldn’t be interested in paying the full retail price for any of the uber cartridges as I don’t feel that they would represent good value for me based on my system and having heard a number of them in a system much better than mine. If you listen to a lot of these cartridges in a very good system, I think it is fair to say that most of them are very good but really offer different types of presentations that appeal to listeners based, in good part, on their subjective listening preferences. And a cartridge that sounds great on one type of recording may not sound so good on another. To a certain extent I think there is always an element of compromise with the use of only one cartridge in a system. So that is a conclusion that I’ve come to personally; if I had another $20K-$30K invested in my system and substantially more in my house providing a very large dedicated listening room then a $5K+ cartridge might make some sense to me. As it stands though, if I was to purchase one of these cartridges at a reasonable (to me) discount, I would absolutely have no problem sending it to someone like Peter Ledermann or Andy Kim to have them rework it. That is in fact, how I’ve been operating for the last 6-7 years, albeit with lesser cartridges, and its worked out pretty well for me. I do think the Accuphase AC2 that I’m currently using is at least competitive into the medium to higher range of cartridges currently out there. In reality, you would have no idea how your Benz would stand up following work from an aftermarket retipper (at a substantial discount to a new cartridge or a manufacturer rebuild) unless you actually had the work done and made the comparison. Many people have reported very good results with said aftermarket retips on high end cartridges. The results of the recent retip of the Zyx Universe by Peter L in the current threads will be interesting to follow. |
- 319 posts total