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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
viber6
2,448 posts
 
mikepaul,
If the Elements at over $10K are significantly superior to my $2K Mytek, I will happily spend the money.  I can certainly afford the $38K flagship Element 118, but if the $12K model 114 is 98% as good, which is implied by the statements of the designer, Merrill W., I will go for the 114.  I suspect that Bill Gates spends his money prudently, with relative value of all his life activities in mind and in perspective, probably more prudently than the typical audiophile.
bigddesign3
237 posts
 
@dep14,
Looks like you have a perfect room size for sound. With you treatments, you should have 10 times more of a chance of good sound than most. I also got lucky and now have a room that will bring the best out of a system, and is treated to minimize any reflections that may throw the sound out of whack. I have a slight problem now with adding a 55" TV above my Stone Fireplace. I could tell instantly the added reflection of the TV. Is is bad? Not really, but noticeable. My fix will be some type of tapestry like thin cloth that I can put in front of it when playing music. With the ability to pull it up and down it like a Venetian blind. It’s not really that hard to retrofit a bamboo blind assembly to a cloth one. Even a high end bamboo blind would probably dampen it enough. Not having a TV above the fireplace for over a year allowed for the realization of the reflection of sound off a TV with electrostatic speakers. With standard piston type speakers, the reflection is negligible. This is just a shout out to electrostatic owners. It will make a difference if some type of cloth cover is on the TV in the middle of the speakers. The back wall behind the speakers should have some kind of damping. There are many ways to do it for cheap with some creative ideas.

I have not personally heard the Martin Logan 15A, but it is the pinnacle of ESL design for the near future. The combination of woofers and panel with ARC room correction will bring a sound that will be better in many ways than conventional speakers. I have the smaller Montis. It gets the job done quite nice. But it lacks in the "full sound" department. Were talking the type of full sound that lacks "nothing" in it’s presentation. JBL Pro series has a full sound, and is a reference for rock music. Does it have the imaging, detail and godlike realism to the nth degree? No. The ML 15A will take you most of the way there, but not quite. There is an easy fix for that. One of the biggest secrets in audio is the "REL effect". Add 2 REL S Series subwoofers and it will transform just about any speaker into a new one. REL is not about adding bass, but it does that too. The REL design just adds fullness to your existing speakers when setup in stereo with their unique "Speakon connection" to the terminals of your amplifier. This connection matches the signature of the amplifier and the RELs hit in unison with your speakers. Your speakers will sound so much fuller and more involving. Like in the order of a few magnitudes better. Don’t take it from me, there have been many with 100k speakers and added a pair of RELs. For the price of admission, they were all floored with the sound improvement.


So my recommendation to have the Martin Logan ESL speaker owners. Just the speaker itself is not enough. Adding 2 RELs in stereo setup, and having them on the inside or outside ends or just a little bit behind your main speakers will make them giant killers. I just turn off one REL in my system and realize that it is just not enough. Turn on the 2nd one and life is good. And I mean SOTA good with the proper amplification behind the Martin Logans. The amp is also the difference between good sound and GREAT SOUND. Amps that double in power for 8 ohms to 4 ohms is going to give you such a leg up on what your Martin Logans really should sound like.
Laying out a considerable amount of cash to accomplish the brass ring in sound is usually reserved for men later on in life. Is is right or wrong to want to get to the pinnacle of sound? It’s either in your blood or not, to be frank. There are quite a few choices out there in the 25k speaker range. A lot also rides on the fact if you can blast it in your sound room or not. Some speakers just absolutely kick a-- at low levels. Some do it all. I am very fortunate at this time that I can blast the living crap out of my system without having someone chasing me with an axe. I just love Martin Logans. But I have JBL Pro Series 3 for shits and giggles with rock. Most of the music I listen to is better with Martin Logan. I can reproduce the sound that any of the best clubs I have been in on the East Coast. Getting close to 4000 watts peak total with my system shooting out club music is just magical on a Friday night. Earlier in the day I’m listening to female vocalists at lower levels with the same life lifting sound that we all long for. Martin Logan and RELs win the chess game for me. Enough said.
jetter
3,033 posts
 
Viber said RE: RIAA "Compared to you, my analyses are in-depth and objective, without inappropriate personal attacks which only serve to take away from the validity of whatever is said."

No Viber, your analyses are only written to draw attention being given to WC because his quest is a ton of fun to follow and to direct that attention onto your tired, repetitious and attention starved ego. How much more polite can it be said, start your own thread and give your opinions to those who are interested and want to learn from them.
jetter
3,033 posts
 
If your posts were only a couple of sentences long, that would be one thing.  But they go on forever.
dasign's avatar
dasign
201 posts
 
I am a fan of panel speakers. I currently own refurbished Apogee Duetta Signature ribbon speakers. Panels were refurbished by Richard Murry from True Sound Works. I personally rebuilt 100% of the Xover circuits using latest component technologies. What I like about panel speakers is that they are free of any cabinet coloration and minimize room side reflections, due to their cardioïd radiation pattern. Obviously, there is some care needed in speaker placement, especially minimum spacing behind the panels.

I was at the 2017/2018 Montreal Audio Show and the best speakers I heard were the Focal Grande Utopia, ML CLX Art and Rennaissance 15A.

The Focal Grande Utopia had a massive, dynamic and huge soundstage. It is a magnificient speaker but at a price tag that goes with it ($120K). You need a huge room/big amps to satisfy these monsters.

The ML CLX Art had the most incredible resolution I ever heard from any speaker. Its mids/high frequency reproduction were to die for, but seriously lacked output at the low bottom end. If I were to purchase these, I would add 2 subs. This is still an expensive solution ($29K = $22K panels + $7K  for 2 Balanced Force Subs). You still need a huge room to accomodate the panels/subs.

My goto ML speakers would be the Rennaissance 15A. This speaker is full range, wide soundstage, well integrated sub for a panel speaker. The mids/high are very detailed, but not as much as the CLX Art. However, the 15 A just kills the CLX Art in the bass department. The 15A has an Anthem Room Correction system built into the speaker for greater room intergration. Priced at around $25K, it is within reasonably priced for what you get. This speaker would fit in a medium-sized room.

I have never heard the Neos, I guess they would sound like a mix of the best features from CLX Art with bass from 15 A and probably/surely better than this mix....
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