Relative component value to overall SQ.


There is a lot of discussion about various things in the hi-fi audio component chain and how they affect SQ and as a beginner it would be interesting to see how folks rate the relative value of these items.

This is not necessarily meant to be a hierarchy. What I would like to see is a percentage value for each item in the chain. Total must be 100%.

I realize this is an artificial construct but I think for newbies building a system it would help them know where to start and where to put initial emphasis.

For simplicity I am leaving out the signal source. Let’s assume that the CDP, DAC, streamer, server or TT are delivering an optimal signal of an optimal recording to the system.

I included room optimization since that is also likely critical.

The components are as follows; assign a percentage to each. Total must be 100 :

Speakers
Speaker cables
Amp
Amp power cord
Interconnect cables
Pre-Amp
Pre-amp power cord
Interconnect cables (to source)
Room optimization


n80
All 100%, otherwise you are moving away from great sound. :)

I was going to say "slicing and dicing is a loser’s game," but that is too harsh. I simply have concluded from building hundreds of systems that all components of a system are critical. Diminish the importance of any 1 element and you are negatively effecting the system.

Obviously, one cannot allocate 100% of funds to 1 component. I have built systems with any given component or cables representing let’s say from 10% to 70% of the total rig cost and obtained wonderful results. Putting together a putative breakdown is only relatively helpful. Attempting to relegate particular components or cables to a secondary role is harmful to establishing superior sound.

Simply shifting around the percentages for each component gets you nowhere fast. When you are sitting at, let's say, a total of $3K for the rig, you can change it around all you want - you will still only have a $3K range of performance. You simply must elevate the cost structure of the system to holistically elevate the range of performance. You cannot know that unit you actually do it. And, when you have done it with hundreds of systems you know it is an absolute fact, not a myth. What's a myth is the idea that one can with a $3K rig typically reach performance of $10, 20, 40K rigs, etc. 

Blessed Christmas to all.
@almarg "As you no doubt realize opinions on this question will vary widely"

Of course. That's why I'm looking for opinions. In the end we each have to decide but if there is a trend here among experts it can certainly give the new audiophile a place to start.

@bdp24 "Conspicuously absent is what I consider number 1, the recording (source material)."

No, I included that as a given in the original post. To me that is a whole other topic separate from building a system. But I totally agree with you.

@douglas_schroeder "I simply have concluded from building hundreds of systems that all components of a system are critical. Diminish the importance of any 1 element and you are negatively effecting the system."

I understand what you're getting at but that approach is not going to help a new audiophile prioritize his initial or even subsequent purchases. And even though you are correct in saying that diminishing 1 element diminishes the system.... there is no way that each element is equal in how much is diminished or improved. That is just as axiomatic. In other words choosing between two interconnects is not likely to have the same, immediate and obvious effect as choosing between two types of speakers.....and here is the important caveat.....to a beginner.
So..the topic is more like, "how to land, for the first time, like a cat, on all four paws..as a newbie in audio...so one can then begin to understand the lay of the land well enough to get one’s bearings and then go on to figure things out."

As cutting it up into digestible dogmatic formulas does not reflect the reality.

But it does reflect a better considered reality when entering the big game or big chase toward better sound. It’s a good thing to do as an opening move.

But holds no sway after that, IF one continues further upward quests, with quality in mind.

One can force that formula to fit one’s upward quest after those opening moves and it will work, but it becomes more and more ridiculous to follow it as the quest reaches greater heights.

It’s like anything. To start driving, you need a car.

To win formula one races... what/when you ate, the angle of the sun, your mood, blood sugar levels, chemical balance, how you slept, how your last day went, the barometric pressure, the temperature across the tire’s body and width, the exact composition of the oil in the engine, and many thousand other points in extreme detail, the position of the seat and wheel down to millimeters, all of them have to be in a certain window of perfection. And each of them can cause the ’reach for a peak’ to fail, if they are off even just a hair. Each becomes very important and each can cause the attempt at a win to fail -or even kill you.

Audio is the same. As the quest to reach peaks becomes more advanced, and the seeker becomes more knowledgeable and refined in that knowledge...each aspect rises in importance in affecting the outcome. Each, like the racing attempt, becomes like a link in a chain, and just one link being off a bit, makes for a chain (the whole system and it’s intent) that utterly fails to be what it is supposed to be.

The complication comes when we fail to understand that the quest is as individual as choices in life partners, as this is about internal wiring and emotions, not technical numbers and measurements. That hearing is an individual thing as IQ is (it’s half physical and half brain power) and that we each build our given hearing IQ up as we grow from a small child and it is wholly individual.

Even worse, hearing remains an unconscious variable as adults, it’s controls are hidden from the conscious mind even as it has a multitude of adjustments and controls as a living breathing changing variable thing. It is not set in stone and has no conscious wording control system. There is zero chance that two people hear exactly the same. And that’s a set of facts you can take to your grave. 

Those technicalities in engineering measurement may define the boundaries but they don’t define the minutia that make up the edge of perfection that we seek.

With all that in mind, what is a good starting point of decent balance in planned out expenses, for a beginner? Even though that is a formula but that formulas don’t really apply. The road ahead is an unknown. One’s personal outcome of directions in that field are an unknown.To keep all that in mind.

Do most people want a formula to start? Yes. Does a beginner formula apply at all? Sort of. But not quite. It’s quite akin to a life formula.

We don’t get one.

We build it as we go along, apply our or physical assets, intellectualism, and emotions - as we may. Outcome is nebulous. Me likely.

The fool sets down the road. Always a good start.

Someone may try to give us a manual of a sort, and we may decide we want to use one, as that is how the given person is wired. But there is no way a manual can be ’the’ way to do things. It’s an open book, just like life.

I’m not into the manual or directions set idea. I’m with Heinlein on this one. Be a master of as much as you can. Specialization is for insects (built in hard wired manuals). I’m not interested in being a commodity for myself or anyone. At the same time, getting your bearings by reading a manual, is always - a very good idea.

So we can come up with a beginners formula but to say it can and cannot apply -is the deal. It depends. It depends on life and the individual.
@n80 ,

One consideration not yet mentioned is if you are buying new, used or doing any DIY. Where I'm going here is that if you are buying used, some types of components depreciate more, allowing you to get a good balance for your budget by spending less on those items. I know you excluded sources from your premise, but I think you can't wholly set that topic aside because digital gear depreciates more than anything else.

While speakers, amps, preamps etc. typically sell used for ~half MSRP(yeah it can vary by brand, age, etc.), digital used gear more than a year or two old can often sell for 25%-33% of MSRP. So I would suggest used digital a smarter investment if you are a beginner on a budget; it may not have all the latest features (often formats that don't ultimately catch on - e.g. HDCD, MQA, etc.). Cables have really high margins and older ones a few iterations older, often way better value. Used pro cables like Mogami or Canare sound really good and can be had for very little cost. 

IMHO, room treatment and speakers will have the biggest variation in sound and choosing speakers that suit your personal preferences/priorities and room is the most important decision. Speakers cost money, so invest some thought & elbow grease to improve your room at low cost. Since even without soldering & electronics skills, most of us can handle a staple gun, scissors and a saw, DIY room treatments can significantly improve your overall sound at a modest cost. Don't make the mistake that many make and ignore the room because they prioritize all the budget to other items. You may also be able to utilize furnishings you already own towards this goal. Natural fibre rugs, thick curtains and bookcases full of books can be wisely deployed towards in this effort. Covering windows, moving glass-frame out of harms way and added upholstery all can help too.  

In terms of choosing components, pick an easy to drive speaker if you find one that you like. That will allow you to spend far less on amplification. Choose the best quality (not most powerful) integrated amp that mates well with that speaker. By going integrated you will need fewer interconnects and power cables. Assuming you are spending less than $5k on the system, solid state will probably be your best bet strictly because tube amps usually cost fare more $/watt. Until you get up there in total budget, good tube stuff isn't really an option unless you over-allocate on the amplification. 
So bottom line, used speakers 50%, used integrated amp 25%, used cables(speaker, 2pr interconnect, 2 power) $400, DIY panels $200-400, the remainder on sources. Cheers,
Spencer 

Ah yes, I somehow missed the qualifying sentence "For simplicity I am leaving out the signal source".

The only other comment I would make is one that doesn’t help (sorry ;-) : The proposition assumes that all comparably-priced "same" components contribute equally to the sound quality of a system. In other words, if one allocates, say, 50% to a pair of loudspeakers, that two very different sounding speakers will both be responsible to the same degree for the assembled systems’ sound quality. It’s just not that simple. And then there is the fact that every speaker "type" (ESL, magnetic-planar, ribbon, dynamic) benefits more from one type amplifier than another, and different type amps come in at different prices to achieve comparable sound quality. If that makes any sense! If that assertion is accepted, the percent formula falls apart.

As has long been said, a chain is only as strong as its’ weakest link. The trick then is to assemble a chain with links as close in sound quality level to the others as possible. Price points are NOT necessarily indicative of sound quality. Two different $3,000 phono stages may not both be responsible for the same percentage of a systems’ quality. Assembling a balanced system is how and why good retailers make their 40 points! Now that many people (not having a good local hi-fi-dealer) are on their own, that's a challenge.