2. cables
  3. 140503-78269

Skeptic or just plain hard headed

So I purchased a pair of Morrow Audio phono cables. These are the PH3 with the Eichmann connectors. Wanted to start there to see if MA cables will be a viable option for my system.I think my story is not so unique to others who have purchased MA cables. So no need to go into the hu hum of burn-in in regards to MA cables, and how things sound bad at first, then gets better,  then excellent...yada yada yada. I know the story about this product.  I simply am one who is not a believer in electronics break in periods, or battery packs on cables, etc... Regardless of what side of the fence you are on in regards to that Im NOT trying to start that debate again please.. Anyway. After reading several reviews of the MA cables and understanding that most agreed that the cables needed a substantial burn-in time, and that the cables would not sound its best until this happens I decided to give them a try. Thinking ok lets get a jump on the burn-in period (if the concept is true). I paid for the 2 day burn-in service from MA. What I didn't expect is that when I got the cable it would sound as bad as it did in comparison to my existing name brand cable (not getting into that either, not relevant). I thought well the cable might not quite be up to snuff with all this talk about burn-in (if its true) but not that much of a difference.  I mean as soon as I dropped the needle on the record I immediately heard a profound difference in sound stage and clarity degridation. Needless to say this cable was destined to be returned to MA for a full refund and my thinking was "they are crazy if I am going to trade my cable for this cable" So I decided to give MA a call to setup the return. Talked with Mike Morrow (very nice guy by the way) and we had our differences in what I should expect out of his product. Now my Mother always told me that I have a hard head.. I heard that growing up all my life, and when you couple that with skepticism it makes a pretty, well lets just say not a very fun person to have a debate with lol. However Mike insisted that if I return the cable that I would be missing out on the fruit they would bare after 400 hours of break in. 400 hours??? really!. Oh at that point I was really ready to return them. I told all my friends "Mike must be nuts" (no offense Mike) no way am I going to wait a year to hear what this cable is capable of, AND I do not have any way to expedite the process...at least I thought I didn't until I found an old sound bar I don't use anymore with analog inputs. Ok I know you pro MA and  pro cable burn-in folks are chomping at the bit. Im almost done. Take your hands off the keyboard for just a few more lines. 

So here is the deal to be fair I am going to be open minded about this because Mike really made me feel like I would be missing out if I return the cable without a proper burn-in (great salesman), and since he had such conviction I now think I have to test this thing out right??. Now I know that there are testimonials out there about how the MA cable improved over 100s of hours in their system, and that they are now "blown away". However can you really hear a profound difference in a cable you play in your system over 170 hours or so?  I would think a gradual difference would be harder to detect. I mean my system seems to sound better to me everyday without making any changes. Is it because of  continued cable and electronics burn in?? maybe. Or maybe its just my brain becoming more intimate with the sound of my system. Well this test I'm doing should reveal a night and day difference from what the system sounds like today with the cable pre burn-in if there is any merit to the notion. In regards to does it sound better than my existing cable that is yet to be determined. I think my goal now is to prove or dis-prove if cable burn-in is a real thing. This whole idea has evolved from if it's an improvement or not over what I use today. We can discuss that later.

I now have the cable connected between a cd player , and a sound bar with a CD playing on repeat. The disc of choice for this burn-in is rather dynamic so it should be a good test. At the end of 16 days (384 hours) I will move the cables to my reference system and do about another 20 hours of additional burn-in to compensate for moving the cable. This will put a total of 452 hours of burn-in on the PH3. When I put this cable back in my system I sure hope it sings because this is a lot to go through to add a cable to your system. Mike if you are right I will eat crow and will preach from the highest mountain top that you are right, and that cable burn-in is REAL.  For me anyway the myth will be considered busted or reinforce my belief that cable burn-in is a bunch of BS. 

For those who will argue the point of cable burn-in I fully understand the concept, and I don't plan to get sucked down that rat hole and I won't argue that....yet because at the end of this test I may be in your camp and I don't want to have a steady diet of crow so for now I will remain neutral on the subject until the test is complete.  However I will be totally transparent and honest about the results. So not trying to make anyone angry as I know beliefs about audio are sensitive subjects, and rightfully so this hobby is expensive and I like you have a substancial investment in this. Just trying to get to the truth. I also understand that cable burn-in may actually happen when you consider it from a scientific perspective, but the real question is can you actually hear the difference.  

I will report back to this thread in 17 days from today (need at least one day to evaluate) with the results. 

happy listening!!

-Keith
barnettk
barnettk OP
410 posts
 
"It was a nice experience, not at all like what @barnettk went through."

Im not saying I had a bad experience to be fair to Morrow Audio. I think they believe in their product and want to avoid people from pre-maturely returning their product prior to doing some burn in on the cable thats all. They will be up front with you and tell you that a lot of people do return them when they first get them without allowing them to mature a bit because they don’t sound that good out of the box. So they give you 60 days to at least get some burn in on the product, and they would like for you to at least give them a chance. At least thats how I took it. Now for the return policy..they did not say "you can’t return them unless....." The guy just asked me to write a note stating why and that I did at least follow the recommendation of attempting to put some time on them before simply returning them. Now you can take that a couple of ways I guess but I kind of get what they are saying. They are in business to make money, and they believe that most people after giving their product a chance will like them. Now with that said.. I called MA to request the return and you do not have to do that. You can simply go to the return link on their page and fill out the return request and simply send the cable back. I chose to call them thinking I needed to setup the return that way. I felt it was the thing to do since I had spoken to Mike Morrow personally, and I wanted to give the feedback verbaly. I guess thats just how I do business. I just don’t want anyone saying "oh Barnettk had a bad experience with MA" because thats not the case. I was however taken back a bit when asked tp provide all this information about why.
2010challenger
10 posts
 
It kind of sounds like they wanted you to "give us a good reason to take it back" kind of thing. I bought a ham radio transceiver once that I just didn't like the audio quality on, so I wanted to return it for a refund, less the restocking fee of 5%. I filled out the RMA return page and sent it off. About 3 hours later, I get a phone call from, I guess the owner, who was playing District Attorney and grilled me like I was a murder suspect. I just didn't like the way it sounded (Very muffled, there soon was a mod to fix the problem). After I explained it to him, he said, "You don't need to make up crap to send it back, just send it!". I tried to explain about the muffled audio on it and he just hung up on me. He lost a customer because of his attitude. The fact that every review of that radio mentioned the muffled audio didn't seem to matter to him. I bought another radio, which I still have. Being a cable atheist, I wouldn't have much patience with the burn in, even though I have enough stuff to hook them up to and do it without any real work on my part.I would rather spend my money on room treatments or cap upgrades, etc. IMHO, a bad cable can make your system sound bad, but any decent cable is equal to any other decent cable, no matter what it's for, interconnect, speaker, HDMI, etc. And spending any significant money on cables is just kinda kOOky.
aberyclark
1,361 posts
 
I'm sure it gets worse as you go up the food chain. Imagine trying to return $4,000 cables and the pushback you'll get? Or how about a $10,000 and higher component? Most companies have a return policy knowing most will not utilize it. The smaller the company, the more difficult for an owner to return that money. Imagine being a boutique component maker and having to write that $10,000 check back to the buyer. It's not like those components are flying off shelves. 

Now, I believe some local retailers will allow you to try a component and or cables with a deposit. 

Overall, I think this thread is very informative. I'm glad the process took place
barnettk OP
410 posts
 
@2010challengeran

What a horrible experience. Im sorry you had to go through that. Good for you for returning it, and your absolutely correct about how you handled it. I wonder if that company is still in business. These companies cannot afford to be that arrogant. Thats why I love forums like these because we have to help each other stay informed on situations just like the one you had. Just imagine if you had been able to tell that story to a large audience like this for HAM users. HAM users are typically a tight nit group of folks. Thanks for sharing. Happy New Year my friend
barnettk OP
410 posts
 
@aberyclark 

"I'm sure it gets worse as you go up the food chain. Imagine trying to return $4,000 cables and the pushback you'll get?

Oh man I bet your correct.  You know someone made a good point a couple bubbles above that said (and Im paraphrasing here) "If cables were better broken in then why would broken in cables not be worth more money" You know after I thought about that it made perfect sense to me since ALL these cable manufactures specifically state that their cable will not sound its best until after x number of hours of burn in. Why not sell the cables already burned in?? Time, effort, cost, or setup could be reasons I suspect. When I called Morrow I told them "well whoever you sell this cable to next  it will already have a full 400+ hours on it" I kinda expected him to think that was a positive but I got zero reaction from that comment.. interesting. However that means nothing to him because thats just me saying I did the burn in with no proof that they can actually backup to the next customer so they are kinda stuck.  Being a small business selling anything to do with home audio has to be challenging. Returns have to be killers, but thats the business. I really did give it my all to keep the cable because I value these businesses. The more there are of them the better for us right. 

"Now, I believe some local retailers will allow you to try a component and or cables with a deposit."

IMO the thing to do is to have inventory of cables you can use just for demos. After the demo is over that cable has to be returned, and if you like it then you are sent a new cable. This way you don't need to have a 60 day return policy and customers can listen to the cable after its matured fully to determine if it will work out in their system. To me that solves the problem. 

Overall, I think this thread is very informative. I'm glad the process took place"

Well thats because of all the good people who participated in the conversation. I loved that everyone for the most part had good constructive input. These forums are very important I agree. 

Happy New year!

-Keith



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