Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience


Hi all,
I’ve asked a couple questions on these forums and have always gotten great advice, so I’m coming back to the well. My fundamental question is: how do you reconcile (or balance) the auditioning value a dealer provides vs the absolute dollar value you get from buying on the used market?

I bought a McIntosh MA252 recently, and it’s so great it’s convinced me to commit and invest in a serious hi-fi system. I’d drop $30k for something that put my jaw on the floor. Right now I’m running Goldenear Triton 2s, a Marantz TT-15 TT for analog, Mytek Brooklyn + Bluesound Node 2i for digital, and just replaced a Marantz PM-8005 with the Mc. Silnote cables all around. The Mc gave me my first taste of actual holographic imaging and sound you could reach out and touch. Now I want more of that, as well as greater/faster/more pronounced dynamic shifts.

I have a dealer nearby that’s been a joy to work with (bought the Tritons and Mc there). They let me listen to their 200k Wilson setup with D’Agostino amps and sweet little baby Jesus -- it was like trying to box a feral animal in the complete darkness. Lashes of sound just came out of nowhere, smacked you upside the head, and were gone. I was dumbstruck. The Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, by comparison, were a smoother, more musical sound signature but far less of that arresting clarity.

I make this point because, had I not been allowed to audition this gear, I would have had no idea about any of that. In doing my due diligence to shop for a setup, I know I want to hear Focal Sopras, Olympica IIIs again, Goldenear T-Refs AND maybe a Wilson Sasha for good measure. I want to hear Mc separates, ARC separates, Rega TTs, Linn TTs, etc. To me, my dealer provides real value in auditioning, optimizing, and being confident that what I’m buying is what I like best.

Unfortunately, with new vs. gently used prices, the $ cost of that experience is massive -- $10k+ quite literally. On the used market now I can get Olympica IIIs for $7k instead of $13.5k, a Rega RP10 w/ Aphelion for $6.5k instead of $9ish, Mc C1100 + MC275 for $13k instead of $20k, and a pair of Sasha’s at $15k is within striking distance. New? They’re $30k. I also live in a high sales tax (10.1%) area, which doesn’t help anything.

For those with more purchasing experience, or even dealing experience, how do you square the value of auditioning gear with the exorbitant relative cost of then foregoing the used market? I feel definite guilt sucking my dealer’s resources to then just go buy it all online. That’s bad business, and if everyone did it, there would be no dealers, and heck, no new gear being made.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
bfjones01
Well, based on the feedback from this thread I decided to take a trip to my dealer and am very, very glad I did. Somewhat unexpectedly, I placed an order for a black Linn Akurate LP12 and will be keeping both my Triton 2s and my Mc MA252 for the foreseeable future. Saved a little money staying with the Adikt cartridge per their recommendation. That’s the gist, but thought I’d summarize my experience and impressions for those interested.

First, my dealer had about a 30 minute conversation with me where we covered what I envisioned for my system. She steered me away from the Mc separates (C1100 + MC312) I was considering, saying that the price difference would probably be better applied elsewhere at this point. We’d listen to speakers, but she suspected I’d be happiest upgrading my TT.

We started with a pair of blood-red Wilson Sabrinas. They were fed by a MA252 as well as a Clearaudio Concept (close cousin to my Marantz), so comparisons to my system were about as close as you could get. We could isolate sound difference in speakers. With the Sabrinas, I found the timing and "togetherness" to stick out. We were not spinning Kid A, but I kept repeating "everything in its right place" in my mind. From a PRAT standpoint it was reminiscent of the $200k Wilson-based setup I’d heard a few years prior, but a little less clarity and dynamic control with the sound. Maybe the latter was the D’Agostino amp magic. Who knows? The lows to me sounded a little less controlled and musical than the Titans, with a little less authoritative slam. The Concept table with stock cart was about on par with my Marantz -- maybe a bit smoother, but I actually found the noise floor to be higher than my deck and the sound a little less rich.

She swapped out the Concept for a Linn Majik LP12 and bam -- there was what I was looking for. Superior in every regard is the simplest and most succinct way to put it, and I found the overall sonic signature more pleasing. Haven’t been a fan of the retro look, but then I saw one in black. Much better.

Finally, we swapped out the Sabrinas with the Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, which I was most interested to hear again, keeping the Majik and MA252. To me they didn’t have quite the PRAT of the Wilsons, but a sweeter, silkier midrange I very much enjoyed. The bass, again, was less controlled, defined, and authoritative than the Tritons. To my ears, Goldenear have really done a nice job with the active sub sections to please folks who can’t (or prefer not to) have a dedicated sub. It makes a difference. I also learned that I’m apparently a little bit of a basshead because I found that dimension to be a non-negotiable while PRAT and a sweet midrange were nice-to-haves. I listen to quite a bit of hip-hop and electronic, so that’s what does it for me. My dealer said taking the Olympica IIIs and adding a dedicated sub would be a logical next step to get the best of my top 2 priorities and she’s probably right. However, we are both aware that a dedicated sub is impractical and spacially impossible in my current listening environment. Just for fun, we ended by swapping the MA252 over to a MA8900, and in that particular system, I’d had about enough after 30 seconds. Everything was much sharper, forward, and "in your grill." I felt better about the MA252 and convincing me to go back to a SS pre would take some doing, I believe.

In the end, she recommended I keep my Tritons and MA252, upgrade to the Linn Majik table, and see how it settles into the system. Separate electronics and speakers/sub would be considerations when my living situation becomes more permanent in the coming year(s).

Now we just had to talk the table. She explained the relative merits of each of the table components, and I decided I just wanted to go ahead and get something that would perform admirably with my future setup. Akurate level it was, but they talked me into sticking with the $600 Adikt cartridge over the $2k Krystal because the MA252’s phono stage doesn’t support MC and it’s an easy upgrade (to Krystal or other) later. I was more than comfortable going bigger on the TT than I’d expected because I’d just heard Exhibit A that better source equals better sound. They offered a discount if I assembled the deck myself, but heck no. I’d already talked to their technician who had 25+ years experience with the brand and was like the Cesar Milan of Sondeks. I’d have been a damn fool.

In the end I paid list price plus sales tax, and yet in reality I feel like I got a substantial discount by not buying a bunch of gear I didn’t need or like as much as what I have. I walked in openly admitting I’d spend $30k and walked out extremely confident in my purchase with $20k still in my pocket. Only downside -- it’s a shame this dealer has stopped offering Goldenear because I think one day I’ll want a showdown between T-Refs and Olympica IIIs + sub. We’ll see about that, but regardless, I do expect to be doing business with this dealer regularly for as long as I’m in the area.

The new table will be in and ready for pickup in 2 weeks.  Way better than Christmas...

I was demoing hegel int's from my dealer and found a 9 month old unit for nearly 1/2 price online so I went back to the dealer and asked if I could pay for their time and effort since the online bargain was too good to pass on and the owner called me and negotiated a fair price on his demo unit. H says people use his store like that and appreciated me giving him an opportunity to compete. Now I just tell them up what I expect to pay for a product if it meets my requirements because i REALLY DON'T WANT TO WASTE EACH OTHERS TIME. 
@bfjones01 congrats on your new table! It sounds like you have an excellent dealer who took her time with you to find out what you really wanted. And I hadn't looked at Linn tables in a while looks like they've totally revisited the nomenclature it was cool to check out their site, Happy listening!
If I know that I’ll keep the item and it’s a large purchase, I buy it from the dealer.

If I’m not sure that I’ll be keeping the item and the item is easily shippable, I’ll buy it from Audiogon
Awesome @bfjones01 !
Glad to hear about you ending up happy and saving money. Sounds like you’ve got a good dealer there.