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A comparison between two DACs, one R-2R, the other ES 9038-based.

This is an item from the FWIW Department, I guess.

Recently I set up an A/B comparison between a Denafrips Pontus and an OPPO Sonica…. Both DACs fed from a Nuprime CDT-8, via the XLR inputs on the same preamp, and everything else constant through the two signal paths to the speakers.

The result when I repeatedly toggled back and forth from the preamp’s input one [Denafrips] to its input two [OPPO]?---- To my surprise [and disappointment], the sounds from the two DACs were utterly indistinguishable, across all kinds of music, after repeated trials … impossible to tell apart… impossible.

The moral of the story? I don’t really know, but it does suggest to me that those who say that DACs of comparable quality cannot be told apart just might have a point.

I bought both the Pontus and the Sonica because I thought that it would be nice to have on hand DACs of “different flavours,” one based on an R-2R ladder, the other based on a delta-sigma chip. 

I did want the expected difference to be real… just for the fun of it… else why spend the extra money? So, my “confirmation bias” was, if anything, stacked in favour of there being a detectable difference.  

However, the results of a reasonably well controlled comparison [sadly?] did not bear out that expectation. Differently based DACs, 2-R2 vs delta-sigma, may not offer such different flavours as many suggest. Is that claim all much ado about nothing?

Thoughts from members of the Forum?

 

 

 


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zimmerma OP
102 posts
 
To celander:
  • I take your point about "compensating input jitter reclocking circuits." No marketeer of a stand-alone transport should rely on that point. "Stand-alone" means stands-alone, after all. 
  • I gather that your "back and forth" with Mr Lim was about the acal measurement of the jitter output of their CDT-8.... Yes?
  • You are quite correct about the difference between the anti-jitter capabilities of the Pontus, on the one hand, and of of the Venus and Terminator, on the other... Femto clock in the latter, not in the former. When I bought the Pontus I did know that.... but a budget is a budget.
soix
9,456 posts
 
Huge +1 to @celander -- especially if both DACs don't have very good reclocking built in.  It's pretty doubtful there is NO difference in sonic reproduction between these two DACs, so the question is why?  I agree with @celander that if you feed two DACs without a very good reclocker crap, you're gonna hear crap.  Whatever way you end up going, you might want to invest in an Emprical Audio Offramp to take jitter out of the equation.  
celander's avatar
celander
1,503 posts
 
OP: I’m not going to go into depth of the banter between Jason and me other than to say he felt jitter at 120 psec was “low” although he suspected it was nevertheless inaudible. I disagreed with him, holding the position that jitter at any level above 10 psec was audible in terms of absolute SQ.

Steve Nugent and a parade of others agree with my view. The Jay’s Audio transport when inserted into my system confirmed this view for me.
janehamble
123 posts
 
I'm interested in the LAB 12 DAC SE.  Can anyone confirm if it has changed in any meaningful way since it was first produced in 2013?   
drbarney1's avatar
drbarney1
178 posts
 
More than 10 years ago, when I could afford it, I purchased an MSB Platinum with upgraded R2R ladders, one in each channel, upsmpling to 384,  and a buffer to eliminate jitter. It sounds very good. I later got an Oppo universal NuForce player for 5 channel SACD and movies. I use the MSB for computer music from youtube and for DVDs. I read that the resistors in an R2R can age and lose some accuracy over years so that limits the practicality of the very expensive ladders.
I too find it difficult to tell the difference between the Oppo and the MSB Platinum in switching back and forth in an AB comparison.
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