Best multi-purpose subwoofer

Duke Lejeun:

" Thank you very much Tim. I find your posts quite educational, as I think you have more real-world experience than I do, and you have paid very close attention to your experiences. And you write very well! "

Hi Duke,

     Thanks for the kind words.  I've done quite a bit of research on low bass room acoustics, in-room behavior of the longer bass sound waves and sub woofers in general.  But I don't consider myself an expert, just an enthusiast who has learned enough to be dangerous.
     My main motivation was trying to supplement the less than stellar bass produced from my main speakers, a pair of Magnepan 2.7QR 6 x 2 ft. panels that bottom out at 37Hz.  These speakers have excellent mid-range and treble response but I knew my system needed better low bass response.  I also knew that integrating subs with electrostatic and planar speakers seamlessly was considered difficult by many.
     I began my journey searching for good bass response by using a single large M&K passive sub with a  12"  driver powered by a separate class AB 150 watt amp.and later added a 2nd 10" self-powered sub.  I'd describe the bass quality of both of these initial tests as better suited for HT than music.  It was relatively easy to position the sub and subs so that the bass sounded best at my listening position.  After adding the 2nd sub, I perceived the bass as more detailed and smoother but it continued to seem disconnected and not well integrated with my main speakers on music.
      Since buying and properly installing the AK Debra bass system, I now consider my journey searching for good bass response completed.  I'm not going to describe again how well the distributed bass array concept, whether the AK Swarm, AK Debra or a custom setup, actually works but instead just state I now consider  my system's bass response for both music and HT as state of the art.
     I believe this concept will work equally well in any room, with any speakers and that any skeptic would be convinced once they auditioned a properly setup system.
     My sole intention is just to share the word about an exceptional solution.

Tim   

Hi ghulamr,

     You already have a very good system with high quality speakers that can reproduce very deep bass well.  Can you tell me exactly what qualities you'd like to improve on the bass of your system?

     I just read a very good review on your Von Shwiekert VR4 MKII speakers on Dagogo.com.  In the review, he mentions bi-amping them using a pair of class D 200 watt Channel Island D-200 mono blocks on the bass modules with very good results.  The D-200 monos are no longer made but there are many very good high powered class D amps that could be used instead.  Class D amps are often used to drive subs because they're small, powerful,have low very low levels of distortion, have very high damping factors and are relatively less expensive.
     Would you prefer to try this out before sub woofers?

     Here's a link to the Dagogo review:

www.dagogo.com/channel-island-audio-plc-1-d-200-class-d-monoblock-amplifiers-and-xdc-2-ac-enhancing-...

     If not, I think you have 2 options for setting up a distributed bass array system in your room:

Opt#1-  Custom DBA: Use your existing pair of VR4 bass modules as sub#1 and sub#2 of the 4 subs required.  This option has 2 variations since you would need to buy either

A.  2 passive subs of your choice as sub#3 and #4 and the Dayton SA-1000 class AB 1KW amp used by the Swarm ($419 at Parts Express) or a class D 4 ch amp to drive all 4.
Or,   
B. 2 amplified subs of your choice as sub#3 and #4 and either keep your current setup of not bi-amping your VR4s or biamp them if you'd like.

Opt#2- AK Swarm or Debra DBA: Keep your existing system as is and just buy and add the Swarm or Debra complete system with 4 subs and the class AB amp to drive them.   

     No matter which option you choose, I can help you with the proper setup procedure and any additional subs or amps you'd need.  Opt#2, since it would actually consist of 6 subs in your room- the 4 Swarm subs plus the 2 VR4 bass modules) would likely provide the best quality bass and most bass (but controllable with the overall system volume control on the Swarm amp).

     Please let me know your thoughts on this and removing the AV7005 from your system.  

Tim

+1 Rythmik.  If feasible, try two F15s. Great subs at a very reasonable price. 

Hi Tim, 

sorry for the super late response. I was on vacation with family. Want to make sure I don’t ignore a fellow audiophile, specially when you have been so helpful. 

Well good new is - I purchased a JL Audio fathom f112 sub just last night. It is in immaculate condition and I paid $1200 for it. It just got back from JL Phoenix service center with a complete service too. 

Its a beast to unpack - but could not wait to do so. Hooked up without much calibration to my benchmark DAC/preamp and my oh my. All I can say is I was missing so much in my 2 channel listening? I had not idea. I am hearing low octave details that were not there before and I think the Von Schweikerts have opened up more 60 Hz and up. I want to take this next week to really take the time to dial in the sub for both 2 channel and HT. 

As for using OPPO as an HT processor compared to Marantz - I had played around a lot with that idea and did a lot of serious comparisons. For HT I think using Ausessy calibration setup really gives an upper hand to Marantz. Movies really have that slam and dynamism and open theater sound using the Marantz with Audessy compared to OPPO. I am keeping my OPPO though for network use, reading my flac files from HD and de-embedding the HDMI from Apple TV for my digital Apple Music. Very happy with that set up driven through the benchmark DAC/preamp. 

Hello guhlamr,

    Congratulations, the JL Audio fathom f112 sub is an excellent choice.  It's heavy at 115 lbs, solid, has a powerful class D amp, comes with a mic and room correction and the 12" driver should be very good for music and ht.  Plus at $1,200, you got a great deal. Good job.

    For setup, I'd still suggest placing it at your listening seat, playing the demo mode on the JL and walking around your room perimeter to find the best spot to locate it.  The bass will probably sound exaggerated in the corners when you do this walk around.  Once this is done, you can run the auto room correction to fine tune the bass response at your listening position even further.
     The last step is finding the right crossover frequency that works well for music and ht.  My suggestion is to set this frequency as low as possible while still sounding good to you.  Remember, the sub is there to provide good bass impact when the content calls for it,  the goal is not to constantly hear it.  This is what is meant by 'seamless integration' with your main speakers.


Enjoy,
 Tim