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MC suggestions

I have long been a Grado fan.  Currently running a Statement Reference v2.  I love it, but.  I auditioned the Ortofon Quintet Black and the Dyna 17d3 and the Benz Glider and while each were excellent in their way, the overall feeling, despite being faster and transparent left me wanting, I was happy enough with my Grado. Id like to take another crack at this now. What I am looking for at this point and I hope you guys can make some suggestions, is a cleaner, and more live sound. This combined with a nice sense of space and width to the soundstage.  Is this asking a lot in my price range which is 2.5k(ish)?  I am of the opinion after spending sometime trying to figure this out, that an el34 based tube amp combined with the Grado cart are just too similar in voicing(warm).  I had hope that running a ss phono stage combined with the low output statement would be just the synergy.  It definitely moved the needle in the right direction and I could live happily if I didn't think I could push it a little farther in the detail direction without losing what I love about the Grado sound.  That is primarily it is not brittle, its natural sounding, nice soundstage all around.  Perhaps if I had solid state amplification it would be a synergistic match made in heaven.  Some carts I have been thinking about are VAS, Miyajima, Dyna(I did really like the 10x5 I listened to at one point).  Not to rule out Lyra but would be worried about the thinness I've read about from some users.  Grado fans seem a little few and far between and I wonder if there are previous fans who have moved on.  Maybe I just need to have a couple carts around and their is no one right cart. I have hesitated pursuing a cart change because my system has been tuned to Grado's sound but if I can get close with another company making MC's that wouldn't call for recalibrating my rig that much would be great.  Thanks for reading and sorry to be so long winded.
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chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@lewm I guest you don’t have an Ortofon booklet with your sample refurbished by Axel for Nandric?

There is all info about the cantilever in the booklet every NOS owner have in the package, there are some nice pictures of the cantilever and stylus tip. Have you ever seen an original cantilever of the Ortofon MC2000? I’ve never seen a cantilever like that from any other manufacturer.

I’ve posted a link to detailed review.
I think cartridges like Miyajima Madake with bamboo cantilever is also not for everyone, but it’s an interesting and unique design in its own way like the Orotofon MC2000 imo
lewm
13,155 posts
 
By all accounts, the original MC2000 bears an aluminum cantilever with a "fine line" tip. That’s another way of saying "line contact". According to our friend, Nikola, Axel had a small supply of actual original alu cantilevers with "fine line" styli he obtained from the same suppliers that made the MC2000 cantilever/stylus for Ortofon.  Ergo, one could say he had the actual Ortofon part. One of those he installed on my MC2000. I think Nikola insisted on this, because he prefers pressure-fitted styli to glued ones. As you know, pressure-fitting can only be done with an alu cantilever.

So, my unit may (or may not) be identical to NOS. I am only repeating here what Axel told Nikola. I also have a copy of the bill to Nikola from Axel, which is consistent with Nikola’s information. Yes, it is an unusual looking cantilever; I agree. I don’t wish to misrepresent Nikola; he did not promise me that my re-tipped MC2000 was exactly like an NOS one as a condition of the sale. But I am happy with what I got, regardless.

But my point is that re-tips can be worse, the same as, or better than the original. There is no certainty that a re-tip will always be a downgrade. And by the way, you are a lucky man to have a known NOS MC2000; 90% of such cartridges on the market these days are actually MC2000 Mk IIs, a very different animal. And even those are quite rare. NOS MC2000s are nowhere to be found on my side of the planet.

And I apologize for this digression from the actual topic.
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rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear @lewm : I owned 3 original MC2000 and there is nothing special on its cantilever/stylus combination. The real subject in the MC2000 about its quality overall performance belongs to its motor and suspension.
One of my samples was at VDH for a new boron/vDh stylus and performs way better than my originals in the same everything set up.

Nomatters what aluminum camn’t performs with better quality than boron cantilevers and VDH or today stylus shape are way better groove tracers than the " venerable " stylus tip in the MC2000.

Who was whom said that the stylus tip can be fitted by pressure in aluminum cantilevers instead glued?. Was not a re-tipper but J.Carr but things are that Lyra cartridges were and are not designed with aluminum cantilevers because J.Carr is not " crazy " as some of us ( including me because I re-tipped in the " old times " some vintage cartridges with aluminum as material in the cantilevers: go figure ! Yes, a stupid action. Fortunatelly I learned and fix my mistakes. ) inexpert audiophiles. Period.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
itsjustme
682 posts
 
i recently returned to the Grado fold, almost by accident. I was rebuilding my three (don't say it) turntables, and needed a cartridge to test out what should have been the pick of the litter. Popped in a Grado green (yes, Green, as in cheap) and remembered the magic.  What did it sound like? Music. Is it accurate? Not sure, and not sure i care. I plan to get a much better model and really looking forward to it.

It is warm, but not syrupy, and *very* dynamic and tonally rich - which suggests detail which suggest HF extension. My Linn troika/ittok/sondek sounds  very pleasant but dead next to it.


Downside?  Tracking. Not awful, but not its strength. Once i fussed with my admittedly fussy arm (Syrinx) i have had few if any tracking issues save ONE album that appears to have some distortion baked in, and simply excites this combination. It may in fact the tracking it accurately, btu it sure does sound scary.

OK that's off topic. Grado's sound like music.  End.
G
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,928 posts
 
@tomic601 
The Ares does indeed ring like a bell; that's not one of my favorite features :(
Sometimes I simply ran it with cover removed; you could also use an HRS damping plate if you remove the loading hatch plate and the (IMO ugly) tube cage. At the end of the day an MC tube phono stage at this sub-$3k price point has some compromises, and the chassis is one of them here. However, I was not able to notice any obvious microphonic effects from the cover in use. My favorite 12BH7 tubes (use them in place of 12AU7) also tend to be microphonic and noisy - and the Ares in general is not quite as quiet as the best, more expensive, tube stages. But also, I'm still quite fond of it - GREAT sound for the money when you get the right cartridge match. Plus Rogue support is absolutely second to none. Maybe they are working on a more upscale phono stage, and that one will be VERY interesting!

Funny, the Herron has a really nice chassis, but it has some kind of bad interaction with the Stax T2 amp I've been pairing it with, so I do get a little bit of hum there. It's been dead quiet in all other configurations I've tried, though - so I certainly can't blame the Herron here. The Ares doesn't have that problem with the T2, though. Still haven't figured it out yet. Weird. 
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