Will a subwoofer add depth and clarity to my system, or just bass?

Repeating a bit here but all my experience trying to get really good accurate low bass had me pretty well convinced it was impossible. Yet this experience wasn't all wasted. It resulted in a solid base of understanding from which to evaluate alternative approaches.

Because of this, when I happened across Geddes/Swarm/DEBRA it was immediately apparent this held promise. It still took a lot of reading to confirm. Fortunately between threads like this and the articles and reviews it led me to there is no shortage of information out there. Hard to overstate how disappointed I am that so few people are interested. Equally hard to overstate how happy I am that Duke and Tim are interested enough to share and help. Thank you guys. Bigly!

On that score, can't help but note that reading about the DEBRA setup Tim uses part way down the page it states, "Conservatively rated by designer Duke LeJeune for 113dB output @20Hz" and  “Room Gain Complementary” tuning (Duke LeJeune)." http://jamesromeyn.com/old-pages/home-audio-gear/dsa-1-0-distributed-subwoofer-array-5-pieces-4k-usd...  So DEBRA or Audiokinesis  http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html either way you are getting Duke. Which I was all set to buy, its almost a no-brainer, except I had all these sheets of MDF just taking up space in my shop! Lol! 

Way back in 1980 an article by Roger Sanders in Speaker Builder explained the challenges of bass reproduction clearly enough to compel me to invest what was for me then not inconsiderable time and money building a set of his transmission lines. With zero personal feedback from anyone having used them. Based entirely on my understanding of the principles. Worked out far better than I ever dreamed. 

Didn't see it as a leap of faith then. Don't see it that way now. More like a slam-dunk. Thanks to you guys.

millercarbon,

       I'm glad you're becoming a believer in the distributed bass array concept but I'm a little confused, have you decided to buy an AK Swarm or Debra?  Or have you decided to build your own custom DBA?
     Whatever you decide, I'll be happy to help you out. 
     I set my Debra DBA system about 3 yrs ago and I'm still grateful every day that I did because I truly believe the bass response in my room is state of the art for music and ht.  
     As Duke and I've said before, there's really 3 good methods you could use to set up a DBA:  1. Buy the Swarm, 2. Buy the Debra or 3. Buy 4 subs of your choice and setup a custom system.  Both the Swarm and Debra are excellent bass systems and come with everything you need except for a interconnects and speaker wire.  But if you want the ultimate DBA, you could buy 4 top of the line subs and just follow the positioning procedure.
     I have little doubt a custom DBA with 4 top of the line subs would outperform either AK DBA but it would likely cost at least 3 times as much and the subs would be larger and more intrusive.
    Let me know if you'd like my assistance either on this thread or pm me.

Thanks,
 Tim     

noble100

I was all set to buy the Swarm and almost did. But towards the end of the research phase came across the idea of building my own. At first it was just to use up some MDF taking up space in my shop! Using the first suggested drivers it looked a lot cheaper too. But then I came across this Morel driver https://www.parts-express.com/morel-ultimate-uw-1058-10-subwoofer--297-130 which is a lot better and comes with a free cabinet. While I wanted to use up my MDF the thought of the sawdust alone was enough to jump on this deal. Good thing too, they are now sold out!

UPS delivered drivers and cabs, ports, terminals. Pretty impressive looking drivers! Amps aren't exactly lightweights, either. 

Duke has been kind enough to provide some really valuable insight and encouragement. Frankly everything is available on-line but its still so nice to be able to confirm you are on the right track with someone with experience. 

So the plan is four subs. Two sealed, two ported. The ported enclosures will be the Denovo freebies expanded out to the larger volume the ported enclosure requires. Parts Express has a page where you plug in some numbers and it spits out some more numbers. I know they are accurate because they're the same as Duke pulled off the top of his head! Lol! Seriously, the guy is that good!

Every enclosure however good it is still has its own sonic signature inevitably imparted, unavoidably audible. Splitting the 4 into two shapes helps break that up. My plan is to go even a bit further, using a bit different or thicker material on at least one of them. Got this idea from one of the other DBA builders. 

Haven't even built them yet but already pulled out the old wire drawer and found power cords and interconnects for the amps, speaker cable, cones... looks like everything should fit.

Will need to build something to hold the amps. My main question or problem would seem to be, the sub amps require line level inputs but my integrated has no pre-out. It does however have a couple unused inputs. Figured I would just re-wire internally to connect the volume output to one of the input RCA. Could also hard-wire direct but the internal re-wire will look better, work better, and make changing interconnects a lot easier.

Probably not the kind of assistance request you were expecting. Lol! Oh well I'm sure I will be able to figure it out somehow.

Hello millercarbon,

     Very exciting, sounds like you have a good plan.  It seems like you're off to a good start with the drivers, amps and enclosures already having been delivered.
     I'm glad to assist you as much as I can.  However, I think you should know that my main areas of knowledge and experience are as a DBA system room configuration person and user.  Unfortunately, I have little knowledge and experience with DIY electronics and speaker projects.  I wouldn't describe myself as totally useless in these areas but I'm certainly in that neighborhood.  I'd suggest you rely on Duke's or others' advice on these matters.  If I do offer advice in these matters, I'll be sure to qualify it with an accurate estimate  of my degree of certainty. 

    Here are a few thoughts I've had thus far:

1. Don't forget the footers, spiked for carpet and something softer for a hard floor.  Mine have 3 screw-in spiked footers on each sub that work fine on my carpet.  There's no wobble at all with only 3 footers but it's your choice whether you want to use 3 or 4.

2. The Debra subs have the speaker terminals on the bottom of each sub but, according to a photo of your sub enclosure, their terminals are on the back.  
     Remember, your subs will be positioned facing the nearest wall and just about an inch away from it; this means the back, 2 sides and the top of each sub are the only visible portions.  My wife loves this because, if the wood is finished well, these subs look like elegant and stylish wood pedestals like those seen in fine stores and galleries. Any visible speaker terminals and connected wires will ruin this sleek and stylish look.   She normally has either a vase of fresh flowers or some other smaller objects she thinks looks good highlighted on these . 
 . 

3.  You said the amps (plural) were delivered. How many did you buy and did you purchase the same dedicated Dayton sub amp that comes with the Swarm and Debra? 

4.  The Morel 10" woofer looks very nice, especially when you get a free sub enclosure with each.  The only possible issue I see is that these drivers are 8 ohms while the 10" drivers used in the Swarm and Debra subs are 4 ohms.  I believe the class AB Dayton subs double their output wattage as impedance is halved from 8 to 4 ohms, from 500 to about 1,000 watts.  This is a good subject for you to discuss with Duke to understand how this could possibly affect performance.  
      I faintly recall at least one of the subs having dual sets of + and - terminals with the others just having single sets of terminals. I think you should check with Duke on the internal wiring of the subs with dual sets of terminals and how many subs should have dual terminals and how many should have single terminals. I know the subs are wired in series and I'm about 70% sure this affects the actual impedance the amp recognizes.  I should be able to find the instruction sheet for my Debra system for relevant details and let you know.  

     That's about all the topics I thought you should be aware of thus far. If you'd like, I can offer more thoughts as your custom  DBA project progresses.


Later,
Tim