Doug Schroeder Method, Double ic

routlaw, thanks for your well thought out reply. You seem to be advocating a DIY version of Schroeder Method, which certainly can be done. I was shooting for proof of concept when I used splitters and Y-cables. Also, it’s much less work to assemble them in a moment versus building them with no proof of concept. Ideally the splitters/Y-cables would be optional for variety and potential mixing of cables.

A good reason why a person would pursue the assembled version is that if cables were to be mixed, it would be a lot of hassle to build it and then find out that particular combination was not as perfect as another. Assembling them makes it far easier to compare.

Manufacturers are now making double ICs per Schroeder Method, and they are meeting with acclaim by users.

When I first proposed the idea to cable manufacturers and other designers one of the caveats was concern about use with class D amps in particular. I was simply covering my ass, so to speak, by putting the caveat out there. The concern may be dispensed with eventually, but I was not going to stick my neck out and say, "Hey, everyone! Try this!" and then potentially have someone report a bad outcome. I’m trying to be sensible while exploratory.

BTW, several other designers have said that there should be no problem. There has not been perfect consistency in feedback by the manufacturers and designers who considered it theoretically, so imo caution is not a bad thing. But, I do not know of an instance where there has been a bad outcome, i.e. incompatibility.  :)

Hi Doug,

Well the DIY approach is certainly one option but you have obviously proven other ways too. Using the approach I previously described the only real difference (that I can think of) from an engineering and scientific stand point is the two sets of conductors share the same shield, assuming a shield is even implemented. If not, then less capacitance anyway. The two sets of conductors also are considerably closer to one another and that geometry "might" have some effect either for better or worse.

However one great advantage of twisted pair wires especially when using the cross connection scheme is the effect of common mode noise rejection which could eliminate the need for any other shielding to start with, not to mention that twisted pair wire to some degree provides some shielding as a side affect.

Allow me to digress for a moment. I am not an EE, but have just enough knowledge to get into trouble from time to time with this hobby. IOW's my hypothesis could be all wrong, but am inclined to think it is correct.

You mentioned the difficulty in acquiring XLR connectors to implement this but the DIY approach using twisted pair wiring cross connected would nip this in the bud quickly. I was able to find however what looked like some fairly high quality male to female as well as female to male XLR splitters made by Hosa. They seem to be available at a number of different online venues.

Hope this helps.

routlaw, yes, I would presume that some companies, perhaps most who would implement Schroeder Method would want a bit cleaner product, and in so doing put both cables into one sheath. But, then again, there's no going back, no switching up when you commit to that. There are two very appealing scenarios; a manufactured, all in one, and a separate, exchangeable setup. It all means lots of fun for the audiophile! 

I'm not sure that you saw my comments on use of four different level/brand of Y-cables for XLR, but the Hosa was I believe my first one that I bought just to get the job done. It is awful, horrid sound quality. I will never use it again. It will pass a signal, but the sound will be degraded compared to a fine Y-cable like the Audio Sensibility. 

It's hilarious; the Hosa was middle of the pack in a best of Pro XLR cables comparison. If this is what audiophiles are using, they are RUINING their system's sound. The Pig Hog brand was nearly as awful. It's built very tough, so I'm sure that Pros think it's gotta be good, but it was poor in performance. The Audioquest custom was better and the Audio Sensibility is superb, both XLR and RCA. The only way I would use the Hosa and Pig Hog is under duress, only if I had no other choice. They are awful, thin, lacking in frequency extension and finesse. Evidence that pro oriented gear can be dismal.  

Folks should know there is an extensive discussion of the SM of interconnect placement in posts made on the “The Science of Cables” forum thread.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-science-of-cables