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picking speakers (and electronics) for a relatively large room - new

Hi guys I am purchasing my first high end 2 channel audio system for a reasonably large room in my house and would like some input. My speaker budget is approximately $13k and overall about $20k.   I will be streaming exclusively. I've done some listening and am trying to decide between Goldenear (Triton One and Reference), Sonus Faber (Olympica III and Serafino) and Focal (Kanta 3 and Sopra 2 - haven't heard yet but about to listen). I listen to a lot of electronic music, somewhat loud, in addition to having been raised on jazz, standards and vocals which I will return to often in smaller quantities. I mostly listen around my living area rather than in a dedicated listening position, but I appreciate my music.

I think my first issue is the size of my space which is 15x25 with a 12 foot ceiling on half and a great room cathedral ceiling on the other half. Also the room opens to another room with a lower 8 foot ceiling and has two french doors that in nice weather open to the outside - so, a rather imperfect and large space.   I am trying to figure out what will fill the room appropriately in terms of speaker and then power.  

 My questions are:

  1. are those Sonus speakers physically too small for my space and do I need physically larger speakers than those (note: I realize they require more power but take that out of the equation for this specific question assuming I can spend more to supply them with what they need)?
  2. the Focal Sopra 2 is physically smaller but from the higher product line and more money than the larger Focal Kanta 3 - should I go with the higher end but slightly smaller speaker (46"H and 7" largest drivers vs 50" H and 8" largest drivers for comparison) or is it physically too small?
  3. how much power do I need and how does a guy in my position determine this? (I already know the sonus require more power but what I am asking is once I pick a given speaker how do I determine how much absolute power do I need? do I take gear home and keep trying (seems impractical)? how do I decide between 100, 200, 300, 500 or more(?) wPC?   is it like hard drive space where more is just better up to a certain limit so spend as much as I can? (seems irresponsible - I would like a more satisfying answer)
  4. I have been thinking I would invest more dollars in solid state amplification because of the dynamic music I like and a tube preamp so that my midranges and vocals benefit from this treatment.   at my knowledge level how do I tell if a speaker and amp 'get along?' which I read about but don't know that I could really screen unless it is super obvious.   I don't trust my ears enough to really now or know how to evaluate. should I just buy some very reputable separates (I have been thinking used to save money) and string em up?

 

Would love any opinions about these questions specifically or generally. Cheers!


gryphonite
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,800 posts
 
Op you have a giant space a loudspeaker sees the entire cubic volume of a room that includes the cathedral part as well.

If you dont go with a speaker like the Legacy which has real subwoofers you will absolutely require them with the other speakers mentioned.

Also efficency is key in getting loud without compression.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 
gryphonite OP
10 posts
 
thanks for the definitive response @audiotroy   appreciated.
erik_squires
16,118 posts
 
OP:
The SF Stradivari.

Wide baffle speakers are amazing in terms of how much of the recording's room acoustics they bring into the room. Those are some of my all time favorite speakers of all time.

Best,
E
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,800 posts
 
Erik a pair of SF Stradivarius no matter how great they sound and they sound wonderful, would accomplish these goals.

The issue is sheer cubic volume, which affects bass response, to overcome this you need multiple high output subwoofers and a way of rolling off the bass reponse that the smaller mid woofers or lower woofers in the main loudspeakers would see therefore, those drivers would not have to go as low which would increase power handling and provide enough sound pressure levels to provide clean undistorted sound to fill up the room. This can only be accomplished by an electronic crossover either in the preamp or a control processor.

Same things with panels they can only move a tiny fraction of space before they compress and hit the limits of their physical stops, which is why any flat panel loudspeaker needs to be gigantic to play loud and they still won’t play that loud, ever go to a concert and see a planer?

The way to accomplish this goal

1: Multiple subs 2 with an electronic crossover which can get expensive and most electronic crosovers suck then you have the cost and physical look of two large boxes in addition to the mains.

2: A horn loudspeaker which again tends to be big and ugly and many times very colored without the delicatness of a great conventional speaaker, but great for rock and EDM ala a Klilpsh Lascala

3: A high efficiency large conventional loudspeaker with an electornic crossover and dsp.

4: A Golden Ear Triton Reference is nearly the perfect answer but we think this gentleman wants to move into an even higher end loudspeaker.

4: Pro audio loudspeakers or PA or DJ rigs.

If room volume and desire to play loud weren’t an issue than almost any good high end loudspeaker would be fine.

So there are a number of issues to make this gentleman happy which is why we recommended the Legacy Focus and Wavelet combo.

The Wavelet’s Bohmer room correction system provides a phase coherent sound in the room at the listeners seat.

The Legacy’s high power handling and high efficiency means that there will be many nights of fun parying without melted drivers.

We are also not saying that our products are the only game in town see comments as stated above.

We also build professional theaters the concepts of high dynamic range, high output and room filling bass all apply. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Legacy dealers
audiokinesis
2,738 posts
 

I concur with AudioTroy’s assessment that high dynamic range and a lot of low-frequency air-moving capability would be really nice to have in gryphonite’s situation.

Legacy’s large floor-standing speakers have these characteristics. And as AudioTroy posted above, there are theoretically other possible solutions. I’d like to comment on one of them:

"A horn loudspeaker which again tends to be big and ugly and many times very colored without the delicatness of a great conventional speaaker, but great for rock and EDM..."

We all have bad memories of horn PA speakers so harsh they hurt our ears. This kind of speaker is designed for maximum SPL per dollar or per pound, along with durability, with sound quality being way down on the priority list. Unfortunately many audiophiles associate this sonic disaster with horns in general. While I’ll readily admit that many home audio horn speakers do have audible colorations, I believe that, with good design, there can be worthwhile exceptions.

Note that there is an extremely demanding area - extremely demanding from a QUALITATIVE standpoint - where horns are widely used. And that is, high-end studio main monitors. Many of the world’s best recording studios use horn or waveguide loudspeakers for their most demanding applications. A "waveguide" in this context is a type of horn that focuses exclusively on radiation pattern control, without acoustic amplification as a consideration. Among the prosound speaker companies that build horn and/or waveguide studio monitors are:

JBL, Ocean Way, Augspurger, Kinoshita, Meyer, Westlake, Genelec, Amphion, Reflexion Arts, Neumann, and Dutch & Dutch.

My point being, among an intensely demanding group with extremely good ears, who isn’t handicapped by prejudice but only cares about performance, whose very livelihood depends on having accurate loudspeakers, horns and waveguides are very competitive.

In addition to the low coloration and good SPL capabilities that a GOOD horn or waveguide speaker brings to the table, they can also be a good match for gryphonite’s somewhat kinetic listening style:

“I mostly listen around my living area rather than in a dedicated listening position.”

Briefly, the right kind of horn/waveguide speaker, set up properly, can give not only good tonal balance pretty much throughout the room, but also still recreate an enjoyable soundstage for listening positions that are well outside the traditional apex-of-the-triangle “sweet spot”. This is somewhat counter-intuitive so I can explain it if anyone is interested, but I think this post is already plenty long enough.

Duke

dealer/manufacturer/yup I do horns & waveguides, including custom studio main monitors


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