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Vibratory or Not?

This is a discussion that for me began on the Stereophile forum which went horribly wrong in my opinion. I was wondering though if this same topic could be discussed here as it comes up a lot in one form or another. My background has been about vibratory tuning as far back as the 70's work in the recording industry and continued into home audio and beyond. The audio signal is one that can be easily tuned, I doubt there is much room there for debate, but we will see, it's Audiogon after all. This being the case I have always concluded that the audio signal is vibratory so has anyone I have ever worked with. It's a common and sometimes even daily practice for someone here to make a vibratory adjustment changing the sound which is obvious to all.

On some of these forum threads however you will see posts saying to get rid of the vibration, without any explanation as to how to remove vibration without altering the audio signal. Every vibratory move I have ever seen done changes the performance of the sound. I've also been a part of the variables of the audio signal during play in real time. If the audio signal is not vibratory how does it change?

I invite you to discuss the vibratory structure and nature of the audio signal.

thanks, lets keep trolling to a minimum please

128x128michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Erik

"Vibration is a mechanical phenomenon whereby oscillations occur about an equilibrium point."

HEA is a little weird when they talk about "vibration". They tend to paint a negative when there's much more to the order of harmonics. It's all vibration.


mg

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Of course, the $64K question is whether the audio signal in electronics is vibratory. Everybody and his brother agrees the acoustic waves in the room produced by the speakers are vibratory.

The reason that’s the $64K question for those who haven’t had their pick me up this afternoon, is because of the whole argument as to whether it’s better to let vibrations run free in the system or to isolate electronics from them. Talk amongst yourselves. Smoke if ya got em.
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
Imo the lack of any clear definition of the "vibration" makes the discussion only marginally useful. Specificity would force a discussion of methodology. A nebulous endorsement or resistance to "vibrations" I find not much more meaningful than marketing. i.e. "Want to banish harmful vibrations? Then you need our product!"   :(

Once again, imo, expending one's efforts at "vibration" control as opposed to focusing on the signal path and quality of equipment (i.e. synergy) to be majoring in the minors, and minoring in the majors.  YMMV

i.e. When a person elects to use a smallish box speaker and then tune the crap out of the room, the stand, etc. they have already forfeited any chance they had to approach SOTA by the methods used. They have chosen to employ their resources on what is a more negligible aspect of performance rather than vastly improve the overall performance by expending time/money on a far superior speaker, i.e. one that can reach lower in LF. 

This is not meant as a troll, but rather a perspective from someone who employ�s radically different means to approach superior sound. One thing is for sure; there are some vastly different perspectives and methods going in this hobby. You pick your authority, and you get your results!  :)

I am not interested in debating my perspective.  




erik_squires
15,922 posts
 
Wait, is the whole point of this threat to distinguish between vibrations in a physical medium, and oscillations which occur in the electromagnetic spectrum? That's why we have oscilloscopes! :)

Best,
E
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,510 posts
 

Everybody knows phono pickups (cartridges), loudspeakers, and microphones are considered transducers because they convert one form of energy to another; pickups from groove modulations to an electronic signal, loudspeakers form an electronic signal to acoustic sound waves, a microphone acoustic sound waves to an electronic signal. Once acoustic energy has been converted to an electronic signal, to what degree is that signal effected by vibrations?

Power transformers create enough mechanical vibration that removing one from a high-gain component (an RIAA phono stage, for example) may provide a worthwhile improvement. Rich Schultz did just that in his modification of the Audible Illusions Modulus pre-amp. Will lifting the wires in a pre-amp off it’s chassis result in improved sound? Will doing so make a Modulus sound as good as an ARC Ref 5 or Atma-Sphere MP-3?

Douglas’ main point above is very well taken; to focus on tweaking an inherently-flawed product instead of replacing it with a superior one is pretty silly; tweaking can do only so much. A power amp exhibiting poor linearity, stability when clipping, power supply ripple, etc., is not going to be transformed by any form of "tuning"; the amp is still going to exhibit those poor characteristics. Why put high-performance tires on a car with a poor suspension?

The most serious vibrations created by a hi-fi system are those of the loudspeaker in the room (the two are inseparable). Room acoustics products convert sound waves to heat via friction, and are the most cost-effective means of improving the sound of any system.

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