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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
hombre
87 posts
 
My only complaint about the speakers I've had is the tweeters.I've had Polks, B&W, ESS Heil ,(which had a high frequency driver called an "air motion transformer"), Infinity, JBL, (which sounded unlistenable because of their brightness) and I've heard lots of others. IMO the most difficult thing for a speaker to get right are the high frequencies.Every speaker I remember had the same kind of "gritty" sound at the very high frequencies.The only way I can think of to describe this sound is steel ball bearings rolling around in a steel frying pan.It's discernable in the sound of cymbals.Also in some electric guitars. I can't tell if this is caused by the tweeters or if it's an audible artifact of the digital recording and playback process.I don't remember hearing this distortion on the best analog systems I heard forty years ago. My friend had Quad electrostatics and a high-end TT, Audio Research amp and preamp, and the sound of his system was the only I remember that didn't feature this annoying distortion in the high frequencies. Maybe this is an inherent quality of digital? Or have I just not yet heard the right speakers? Has this distortion I'm describing been experienced by anyone else here?
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi hombre

I have heard the sound you are talking about since the late 70's with audio equipment and have found it not to be digital but field related. Meaning the materials being used in the components interacting with the audio signal and the fields.

orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

I'm an electronics technician with a First Class electronics license, and I've learned a lot from audiophiles who don't even know Ohms law.

The science of electronics is quite applicable in "Mid-Fi", but it gets hazy in HEA where audiophile ears and judgment become more important.
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

Hombre, before CD, I auditioned the ESS Heil, and heard things that I liked, as well as things others describe that I didn't like. That's when I decided to separate the good from the bad; now let us get to the present.

First, I consulted with a cross over design engineer, and told him that I wanted to utilize the Heil-AMT in a pair of custom speakers, and the closest speaker I could find for an example were Theils. We went from there and presently I have custom 3 way speakers with the Heil tweeters, 6 inch midrange, and 12 inch woofer; they are as mellow as a cello.
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

Let me correct that post; they are as neutral as the sound of an electronics signal with no speaker at all; if a mellow cello is fed to them, that's how they will sound.
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