Have Passive Preamps Finally Come of Age?


Back in the late 90s (eons ago) I tried a variety of passive preamps (PPs). The most musical was an autoformer, but back then my system was not balanced. For the last decade I have been using active preamps, both tube and solid state, but finding a quality balanced preamp under $4K is damn near impossible. Enter the Parasound P5 (2.1), which in addition to having balanced I/Os, it has a separate bass management circuit (MSRP $1095), and I was hoping it would provide better control over the built in class D plates incorporated into my 2 SVS powered subs, whose volume controls are STUPIDLY sensitive: when barely cracked from zero they overwhelm. Alas, no bueno. 

Recently i watched a PS Audio YT video that was emphatic about NOT connecting powered subs with interconnects; instead he recommends speaker cables piggybacked off the main systems amp/s. I had a spare set of DIY flat copper cables, and was shocked how much better they sounded, but doing so did not change the  volume control problem and unfortunately this id not bypass the SVS amps whose class D chips are now ancient. Thinking there could be an impedance problem led me to revisit PPs.

I sold my P5 and was using the XLR outs from my Oppo 105 (upgraded power supply and IEC/wiring to the power supply) direct to my Emerald Physics 100.2SEs (class D). The noise floor dropped tremendously, allowing me a much better view into the music. My Core Power Technologies 1800 PLC had more than a little to do with this, but...  

Days of PP research later, I came across LDRs, which seem like the ultimate PP option, but XLR versions are ~ $2K and up, with the Tortuga coming in at $2700, seems like a true SOTA bargain, just not in my current budget. Scouring the' for sale' sites I came across a Hattor XLR (MSRP $995) which was in my price range. Hattor's www had links to 2 reviews both were extremely positive: one used it in combination with a class D amp. Bingo! I snapped it up.

It arrived late yesterday, although Hattor's www pictures look awesome, they do not compare to seeing and touching it. The metal carrying case was an indication of the designer's dedication. This is an etremely well made piece of kit, but how does it sound? Alas it came with no manual and Hattor's site does not have a PDF. How hard can it be to hook up? Well, after a couple scary minutes, I discovered that it would not light up until I connected the 105. 

Stone cold, the first thing that shocked me was a further reduction in noise floor and an incredibly wide and deep sound stage, but as can be expected, it was dry. Fingers crossed, in about a half hour I began to be rewarded with texture as well. Tis only got better as the night wore on

I hope somebody chimes in with their Tortuga experience, or any other high quality PP information.that goes under the reporting radar. 
tweak1
George, 
the AMR DAC was many years ago.

The Denafrips Terminator DAC I have now has single ended and XLR outputs. The SE outputs are going to an active preamp. I’m hoping to use the XLR outputs of the DAC to the Hattor passive pre, then SE out of the passive to my SE amp. That way all I’ll have to do is swap cable at the amp, because curently, I have to swap cables at the DAC and at the amp, when I want to enjoy the other preamp path.

Glad to hear there is no problem in mixing XLR through passive pre to SE. 



Hi jriggy, yes in the Denafrips (very nice dac btw) you do have 4 separate converter outputs giving true xlr.
https://ibb.co/fG5hmdh
But what you intend to do may work fine, but by using both xlr and se outputs I can see that the phase of the one you want to use "maybe" loaded differently compared to the other phase, as the output of my MSB discrete R2R comes straight from these 4 x resistor banks.
Best off sending an email off to Denafrips to see if it will load one side of the balanced phase differently and if these’s a problem with that?

Cheers George

I just purchased Metrum’s Adagio (for the second time).  It has a volume control implemented by changing the reference voltage in the DAC, so it is like having a volume control that is not in the signal path.  
In my previous direct comparison with their Pavane Level 3 (essentially the Adagio without volume control) my McCormack unity-gain buffered linestage with the Pavane added a touch of body and tonal density that seemed just out of reach of the Adagio used DAC-direct to the amps.
i really wanted to simplify my system this time around by going DAC-direct but may try something different since I was recently given instructions on how to easily remove the (high-quality Shallco) volume control from the linestage’s circuit to make it a very high-quality unity-gain buffer.  Running the Adagio through the buffer will hopefully give me the best of both approaches.
@georgehifi 
im not the most technical...so I need to make sure I’m understanding and what I’m asking them... So what you’re saying is that you are not sure if the balanced XLR outputs might load (or flip?) phase differently IF the SE output ALSO has cables connected to a preamp? If this is the case, would it matter if SE pathway preamp is OFF while using the XLR/passive pre pathway? 
08-08-2018 1:35am
celander My Teo Audio Liquid Pre passive
I’ve never experienced a more authentic, transparent, three-dimensional musical reproduction experience, including reproduction from my previous audio systems having what I now know to possess perfectly-matched impedances throughout.
A very good passive, and from what my sources tell me, it’s a 23 position "shunt" type passive volume control, 1 fixed series resistor, and 1 variable shunt resistor (48 total), not the best way of doing a passive volume control, the "ladder" is best, "series" being the worst.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/uploads/monthly_2018_06/Capture.JPG.93bbd2ce49060300b06abfd1a62ce8f...

This is a 23 step stereo "ladder" using Dale resistors, total of 92 resistors total, signal still only goes through 1 series (variable) and 1 shunt resistor (variable), this give more stable output impedance compared to "shunt"
http://www.analogmetric.com/images/200812/1229844904628152861.jpg

Cheers George

We are notoriously tight lipped due to the nature of intellectual theft which both Taras and I have endured far too many times over the years. I could name you more than one company that has come into the world (and audio world) based on intellectual theft from one or either of us. Yelled at and slapped around as charlatans on the front..while the thieves slip around the back and steal the tech and ideas away and make a living off of it. This is why incorrect information can be out there, and we won’t correct people. Too much information. The questions are all about getting responses.. so the data can be mined.

Just to make a total mess of common logic (gained from much experience by the whole industry) in the audio world, I’ll say one thing one time about our tech to illustrate how impervious it is to impedance function.

The stepped attenuator in the Teo Passive Liquid Pre, is a 23 position series unit.

One interesting thing, is that it does not change in sonic character as one raises and lowers the levels on it. Owners note this specific point as it is part and parcel of the problem of passive preamps, but in our case, is non existent.

Which is totally backward to how one understands what a series implementation will do. Which you basically said, George. Yet it still works gang-busters and and the top of the quality chain in passive or active preamps. How is that?

The preamp can, when the attenuation is set to the max pas through, pass either 1080p component video (would need a second unit to pass the third signal, component has three signal lines) OR Digital audio signals in a coaxial configuration..

It is literally, by all science and physics a totally different handling of the living dynamically changing impedance of a constantly shifting signal. that is what the fluid metal is: it is not your father’s impedance.

Period. The end. Finito. No question, no argument possible.

The physics, if you actually know it..is quite clear. Anyone arguing beyond that, really does not know their impedance at the molecular level and everything else required to understand this question and answer set about the fundamental nature of conductivity, LCR, and signal.


THAT, as an exclusive patent that locks the entire industry (all of them) out of this area of implementation (we were there first, at a ground level and grabbed the whole area)..that is why the audio cable industry recognized this.

It is also why an unnamed maker of world class audio cables..came into our display room at the 2009 Montreal audio show...and shook our hand with a big grin on his face. He warned us that the entire industry of high end audio cables felt quite threatened by us and that we need to ’watch our backs’.

The only thing that has saved them, is that we are not super ambitious and gung-ho to push huge coin into a huge push. But we have been threatened and cut down in various ways by various manufacturers in the cable world, in ways that are libelous to speak of, even if it is true.

People are slowly getting it, this problem of how basic LCR tells only a very small part of the story of why things sound the way they do.

We’ve make a big jump, here (in all technological ways) . The tech is not easily understood and this is added to the audio problem of some thinking that having good hearing and being able to hear such things - is crazy. Which is really pear shaped in the final analysis, it’s like beating up people because they are smart. Same-same.

We’ve latched on to a partial explanation of one aspect of part of a question: the the application of LCR to audio. It is the nature of humans to be dogmatic and biblical, it’s a social fabric coherence function buried in our subconscious origins of thought. And it screws up our logic function, all the time. LCR is just a echo back of the smallest part of the possible components of analysis. Yet some dunderheads crown it as king, and try to kill in it’s name... when it can’t even tie it’s own shoes. The insanity is.. they they don’t even know what it means. The map is not the territory.

Things change in physics, by the minute, these days. Same for medical research. This is not the world of a bunch of older audiophiles, who are slowing down in their life pedaling speed. The universe is now an information field, time is not linear, spooky action at a distance is fully realized, and immorality is here, in the genetic and real sense. And much much more. WAKE UP. PAY ATTENTION.

Like Max Planck said, "Science advances - funeral by funeral". (when the nasty nay sayers die and their grip and voice finally leaves the stage, we can get on with moving forward)