Tidal Speakers owners

Jorn, once again I don't understand the statement that neutrality is objective. I agree that comparing what goes in with what comes out is "neutral." However, as you admit frequency response is a measure but is necessary not sufficient for neutrality. Were we to have digital information on both what goes in and what comes out, we could have a correspondence measure that would get at this, but I don't think anyone does this. Instead they listen. This is a very sensitive measure but is typically rejected by "objectivists" as too subjective, as some listeners will not like a speaker and standing beside them another person will.

Tbg, again you miss the point. Your speaker's designer has explained it, we've linked articles, others have chimed in. Here is the reality: YOU don't have a comprehensive understanding of these, but there IS a gropuong of generally agreed-upon measurements that, when examined and assessed by an expert speaker engineer, do tell us whether a speaker is basically neutral. This isn't guesswork or subjective. It is widely agreed upon. This is THE way good speaker design is done. And with neutrality -- what goes in comes out -- as the goal. We understand that you don't understand, but please don't confuse your misunderstanding with the facts as they have been layed out for you!

Appreciate your chiming in Jorn, and well summarized Holenneck. It's getting a bit tiresome and a little long winded on this basically simple subject.

Holenneck, no I don't misunderstand. There is much that we know about how to design speakers, such as a good frequency response, wide dispersion, and sometime good phase consistency. But as Jorn suggests speakers with these good characteristics don't sound alike. Of course going further is subjective and it is somewhat more than guesswork. Please don't persist in the nonsense that we know enough to make perfect speakers. We don't have anywhere near perfect drivers, and there are severe costs to weigh in choices of parts.

I know objectivists always want to believe there is no guesswork in any audio component, but the reality is that our ears are the only real guidance we have. I am obviously very impressed with some designer's work and believe others come up short.

Of course there should be that remaining 5-10% in the R&D process whereby final/fine tuning by ears often/do play an equally crucial role (subjective). But as repeatedly stated, good standard sets of measurement criteria have to be met first (objective). I'd be wary if a designer chose to design their products the other way around.