...just heard the piano ceras at the axpona show a few weekends ago. they were,by far, the best speakers there.. in the room they were in..one of the stereophile reviewers came by and stayed for a long time and just loved them..see his statement on the stereophile sites review of the show...they had the most emotional mid-highs i have ever heard and the bass ..from a speaker their size was superb...i liked them so much that i am ordering the contriva diacera-se next week as my 'last speaker'..my room is larger then the one at the show or i would have ordered the piano cera...superb speaker..my friend and i kept returning to the tidal-argento room time and time again because it was the only room..in our opinion ..and those of many others..that sounded like 'music'.. |
What's the biggest difference sound wise between the Piano Cera and the non-Cera Piano? Price difference also?
Thanks |
Here is an email from Jorn at Tidal. I was trying to decide on which model would be the right fit for me. I gave them my info. and they type of music I listen to (pop/rock).
"The new Piano Cera is faster, more nuetral, and just the better speaker. It sounds like a small Sunray. BUT: The Tidal Piano is so magical in my world that I would not hesitate a second to choose it over the Cera. In fact, the Piano Cero will show you a U2 album is a lousy recording while the Piano Classic will still make music out of it and does not need crazy attention to the chain. My tip, the Piano it is."
Jorn.
Translation, if you only listen to rock, and that genre has a lot of lousy recordings, the Piano Classic is going to be the best fit. However, for classic or jazz or a wider range of music the Cera is the better fit. |
Geopolitis,
Are you still enamored of Tidal's electronics as well or have you gone in another direction? |
I will drive the Tidal Piano with a set of Sovereign amplifiers and Argento Flow Cables.My Dac is an Orpheus Dac One but I will replace it in the future. Potential buys are the Stylos, DCS Debussy, Emm Labs Dac2 |
Tidal electronics are fantastic but the Sovereign are the best value for money amplifiers in the world (especially the preamplifier). They are also more musical than the Tidal Electronics but always being exremely neutral |
Calloway,
You are jumping off the Piega ship? Never thought I'd see the day. I recently have too....
Shakey |
shakey...i am ..i am....the c-40s are great speakers but not in the tidal 'contriva diacera-se' realm...they are very special indeed...these will be my last speakers...i think...at least for a long time..if i live long enough there may be another pair but way down the line...what did you upgrade to..? |
I tried the Wilson Sophia, but that didn't quite unseat the P-10s. I bought a pair of GMA C3s and I'm quite happy. I sold the Piegas locally last Friday and the new owner is pleased too. As he should be, they are great speakers. But there is just magic in that whole time coherence thing.
Shakey |
Geopolitis, the word "musical" always concerns me. In what way are the Sovereigns more musical than the Tidals? How close do you think the Sovereign preamp gets to the Tidal Preos?
Calloway, you probably heard at Axponda what I heard at the last RMAF and reacted similarly. That Sunday morning I heard what I had never heard before out of a speaker. No doubt the electronics and the turntable were contributing, but I was dumbfounded! My Contriva Diacera SEs should be here shortly. Warning: I think Tidal or Sovereign electronics may be in your future. |
Tbg not in the way you imagine or mentioned in 99% of the reviews. Musical in a very transparent and FLAT way. The Sovereigns are as musical as the music itself is...At least more than most amplifiers I have heard! IMHO
Mike |
Argyro, for some it means that it is not a real sounding but nevertheless enjoyable sound. I just wonder how Geopolitis meant it, as he said the Sovereigns were more musical than the Tidals. Believe me, I can more easily afford the Sovereigns, but I have heard neither. |
I am using the Sovereign Director with a Sovereign Power for amplification. I guarantee that if you cover them with a blanket many people will not be able to say whether it is tube or solid state amplifiers. Just to give a hint I dislike most tube amplifiers (except the power amplifiers by Wavac) but these babies make the Tidal set to sound kind of dry in comparison....
The way a friend describes it is that he would use the Preos in a studio for the remastering of a production and then he would use the Director at home to listen to it.
Anyway keep your eyes open in case you get the option to audition them. |
Geopolitis, did you heard Soulution premp and monos? if you did, how it compares to Sovereign electronics? and with Tidal electronics? Thanks |
Hi Emigene,
I believe that you are talking about the 3 best amplifier brands in the world. Sovereign, Soulution and Tidal are my top 3 brands...
After those 3 i would put Gryphon (for their power amps, I don't know anything about their preamps).
Another candidate for the best amplifier in the world would be the new Orpheus Labs Privilege Series but haven't heard them yet... |
Can someone comment on the Tidals having a bit small images and not great body on the instruments? Thats what a friend of mine told me that he read in some German forums....
Mike |
Having had about three weeks with the Piano Cera, and having owner several other fine loudspeakers (e.g., Avalon, Acoustic Energy, AudioMachina), I can tell you that is absolutely NOT my experiece with Tidal. The image size seems very true, neither shrunken nor bloated as one might here from a large panel/line source. In fact, it reminds me somewhat of the image size of an Acapella horn system, albeit adjusted for the size of my small listening room (11 x 14). I can only imagine what it would image like in a larger room. Now about the body thing, I think lack of body is saying something about the musicality of the presentation. And rest assured, Tidal loudspeakers are supremely musical transducers. If your friend is hearing a lack of body, then look elsewhere in the system. I find them musical although very truthful to the source and by that I mean anything and everything in front of them right back to the recording. |
Ok Linkster thanks for the answer! I also think that he actually means lack of bloom, in a bad way I mean! I just wanna make sure I am making the right decision!:)
Happy Listening,
Mike |
German forums, say no more ...
I have once read an attack on Tidal, where someone - who had of course never heard the Preos preamp and had actually only seen pictures of its inside - accused Tidal of having plainly copied a Bryston preamp and selling it at a multiple of its price.
Rest assured Mike, it's all there and more importantly it is true to life. |
Mike, it sounds like you are speaking of bloom in terms of macrodynamics and in that case the Piano Cera is very, very fine indeed. It will keep up with just about any conventional cone/dome speaker. It may not be the last word compared to a horn, or it may not have the slam factor of a Wilson. However within its power envelope, and even at background levels it sounds quite wonderful and lively. |
Linkster:
What is the sensitivity of the Piano Cera? What do the impedance and phase plots look like? I'm hoping my 18wpc SET amps could drive them in my smallish room... |
Fla,
I find it unlikely to be able to drive the Cera with a 18w SET . It is is big speaker... |
Hi Fla, power requirement is a favourite theme among Tidalists. I have adopted the view expressed by most: "don't parch them!" It would be a terrible waste if you lost the beauty of what these speakers can do because the amp runs out of breath. I heard the Piano Cera in a fairly large auditioning room (still have a picture of that on my system thread) with 2x 140W (8Ώ) and I thought it was a perfect fit. Of prime importance is, those watts need to arrive "clean" and they need to arrive as fast as lightning to catch the dynamics that Tidals excel at.
Having said that, when I still had the Unison S2K with its 2x 15W from 2 KT88's, I had to try my Contrivas with it, of course. From that experience only, I'd say if your room is smallish and the music you hear is mainly small combos or solo performers, be it jazz, folk, blues (great !), renaissance or chamber music, I believe a pair of SET 300B's or 845's can take you to nirvana. Don't take my word for it, though, but do try to audition the pairing in your own room.
Would be brilliant if you could choose from 2 alternative amplification paths, of course :^) |
Fla, I would advise you to contact you dealer and/or Tidal directly for that information. Karelfd, I am driving my Piano Ceras with Einstein's LITD hybrid power amp (80/115 wpc into 8/4 ohms). Again, I have a small room and do not feel any need whatsoever for more power. In fact, I heard the LITD drive the Contriva Diacera SE in the dealer's large room with great results. |
Are the Cera's rated at 88 dbs? Correct me if I am wrong, but If that is the case, 100 watts from a high current amp should do the job no problem. |
I really don't know what the Ceras rate insofar as efficiency goes, but anecdotally the 88db value sounds about right. They are slightly less efficient than my 90db rated Ultimate Monitors. |
I have a solid state amp, Modwright KWA 150. I wonder if getting another one and running in mono configuration would have any advantages or improvements or maybe that would just be a waste? |
Kclone, I don't know what your listening habits are, but I can tell you that the low level detail on my Tidals is exceptional and many times I find myself listening at what many might consider background levels. I think that would be overkill and your money may be better spent elsewhere. |
..just ordered my contriva diacera-se today in piano black...now the wait........... |
Linkster, your right. My amp handles speakers very well, no need to mess with something that is working.
Calloway, congrats. What size is your room? |
Calloway,
congrats for buying your final speaker ever. Next step is the Argento Flow cables (or even better FMR). |
geopolitis,
....i do currently use the smr i/cs and speaker cables...along with lessloss pcs..at some point in time i would like to get the fmr cables...the smr should be great ,however, for starters.. |
Geopolitis, you seem to have extensive experience with amps and cables. Can you describe what cables you have used and found the Argento cables superior? I doubt if the Synergistic Research cables have many users in Europe, but I have been very impressed with them.
Thanks. |
Tbg,
I have tried the Stealth Indra and Dream Petite, Echole Obsession interconnect and speaker cable, Synergistic Research Accelerator interconnect (a Special Edition that a friend bought from thecableco.com and is much better than the normal, close to Apex) , Purist Audio Design 20th Anniversary interconnect, Argento Serenity, Argento Serenity SE, Argento Serenity Reference, Argento Serenity Master Reference and some other less high end brands... |
Calloway,
even the Argento Flow is much much better cable than the SMR. Of course SMR is already fantastic if you compare it with most of the other cables... |
The Tidal speaker often get displayed with the Argento cables. I've never heard them actually and have no idea how the sound. I've recently ordered a Tidal speaker and am waiting for delivery in a month or so.
Has anyone ever compared the Argento Flow with the Jorma Prime or Siltech cables? Both Jorma Prime and the more expensive Siltech cables eg. Empress have great followers as well.
Appreciate peoples thoughts. |
I personally consider the stealth Indra better than the argento flow! That is in direct comparison in my system! |
Maxx1973, which Tidal do you have on order? |
Whats better Siltech Eskay Creek satt or Argento Reference speaker cable? |
Argyro, I know the Indra very well, so I very much appreciate your comparison between the Indra and Argento Flow. |
Kclone, actually been crazy and ordered the Sunray :). Was an "impulsive" decision after hearing the speaker. Was so overwhelmed with its performance that I ordered it.
Now I'm suffering the consequences since I'm living of water and bread for the next 20 years :-)
But..... I've got something very special and amazing to listen to. |
Maxx1973,
you are a very lucky guy. I have heard the Sunray a few times and I find it unique in every aspect. Anything else sounds fake... |
Ge-fe-li-ci-teerd Maxx1973! Ik breng je graag een fles wijn en een stuk kaas voor bij dat brood als ik dan mag meeluisteren 8^)
(Sorry guys, special address for a special occasion, no worries, nothing nasty) |
Hi, guys! My Contriva Discera SEs arrived yesterday and now are playing. To my surprise they have high WAF. They have some breakin on them so I expect to be happy shortly, such as I was at the RMAF when I heard them on Sunday of the show.
One first impression-never have I seen speakers better packed. |
Tbg,
the sound will improve dramatically in the next few days. Wait and see... |
Well I have had the Tidal Contriva Disacera SEs playing for three days now. Each day has been dramatically better than that before, which is not to say that I was unimpressed the first day.
I initially place them exactly where I had the Acapellas before, but recently I toes them in further. They are 10.5' apart and I am 11' from each. Their toe in intersects just behind my head. Their top inside distance to the wall behind them is 38" and the center of the drivers is 40" from the side walls. I going to experiment with these, of course, but I wonder if any of you guys have experiences which might help me.
As perversity always rules, I got my new Bergman Sindre the same day I got the Tidals installed. I have yet to set it up, so I am limited to my two digital sources, an Exemplar/Oppo BDP-83 and the Mac/Amarra/Firewire/Weiss Minerva server.
Although I never heard the Contrivas sound this good at the shows, I did make the right decision in buying them and thank the many whose experiences reported in the various threads here for sharing their positive experiences. |
Allow me to offer a bit on the virtues of Tidal speaker designs. I have had my Piano Ceras for a bit over a month now and they have about 525 hours. Right now I am listening at what many would consider background levels. Their hallmark to me is the musical way in which they offer astounding levels of transparency and coherency without coloration. Every system change I have made in terms of swapping powercords is easily recognizable, even at these background levels. This is not to say they don't excel at all the other stuff (transient response, dynamics, imaging/soundstaging), they do these things exceptionally well. It's simply that Tidal manages to do provide all of this within the context of such unforced musicality, no coloration and no artifacts. Congratulations to Tidal's craftsmen led by Jorn Janczak. I now know I have bought my last loudspeaker. |
Linc,
I heard the Tidal Piano Cera this weekend in a friend's house (first pair sold in Greece). It had played only for 50 hours but already showed its potential. The best speaker in the world for its size? Quite possibly... I have never heard anything coming even close... I do have this feeling that it might be better than the Contriva too (not the Diacera of course)!! |
What is amazing is how incredibly well the Piano Cera works in a small room. The images are distinctively larger than one would get from a stand-mounted monitor, yet in soundstaging it gives up nothing to a mini-monitor. This is something I was totally unprepared for. |
tbg and linkster....i envy you guys being able to listen to your tidal speakers...my contriva diacera-se speakers are still ~4 months from being finished. i wish i could speed up the process but they will be worth the wait...especially after reading your posts..thanks for the visions you're giving... |
