Personal confuser Audio which aspect has the greatest impact on SQ?

@Eric

Thanks Eric

I’m all for swaping in and out those lesser priced gizmos, even the media SW I’ve had to digest in order to use.

I’m in that sW investigation boat presently. just finished looking into amarra, and about to decide on roon or Audirvana. Audirvana Plus may wind up coming  on board anyhow as a belt and suspenders approach.

ROON may or may not end up as a wise pick for me currently as I simply do not have enough varied zones or end points to see its greatest value.. 

the interface between PC and D/A intrigues me now.

until another or a newer D/A lands here and that might be a while, I gotta go with my BC DAC 3, and that means some how converting from USB to BNC or aES or from Ethernet to BNC/AES. the latter option would be the choice provided the cost is attainable.

otherwise and for a time, its likely gonna be my old  Hiface or a refreshing  of Windows on my Win 7 box and using its Lynx aES 16 X pci SC, which does a better job by far than the Hiface despite those who would kick about using a PCI sound card.   

I’m only guessing but feel even with tech continuing to march ahead that improving on the Lynx is gonna still be in the 600 to 1K price range, if not a tad more.

the more attractive pieces are those which have upgrade paths already in place either with interior tech or simply via upgrading power sups.

as said, the sA DACs I’ve heard that are compelling were the eMM Labs 2x and the latest BC black box pre/DAC, and those are nothing more now than dreamworks, even pre owned.

lastly, the advent of the latest all in one  ‘music streaming’ contraptions  seems a favorable route perhaps, at least on the surface, than dealing with seeking out and adding in a upscale ‘bridge’ and a new SA DAC.

we’ll see..

@blindjim 
 Afraid I cannot get into the DAC range that you mention.  The two DACs that referenced above were the Mytek Manhatten and the Bryston DAC3.  I would love to know how an EMM Labs or dCS would sound in my system and my room, but sadly, these will remain aspirational.  I therefore cannot comment on whether hitting this strata will upgrade your sound.

i can say that when I purchased these two DACs—coming from an Oppo 105 as my DAC- the changes in my system were profound.
  I recently added a Bryston BDP3 as my streamer, moving on from Bluesound.  It was a clear sonic upgrade, but not of the magnitude that the DAC upgrades were.  When I added Audirvana to my MacAir, another improvement, clearly audible, but again, not of the magnitude that upgrading the DAC.
  I therefore think that leaving all else the same, the DAC is the biggest factor in the digital chain, but we know that a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link...
  I am not sure if I answered your question.  I don’t think that there is a definitive answer to it

@mahler123>
Huge thanks.

I'm clueless on why at times, my paragraphs are being duplicated... oil well. sorry.

you said you used both Mytek Manhatten and the Bryston DAC3 and I'm guessing the dAC 3 is the current DAC, yes?

if so, or no what was the main diff between them?

as for DCS digital conversion, from what I've heard of these I could not live with DCS gear UNLESS it was fronting an all tube rig, which had an obvious 'tube' sound. sET-ish like if not in fact. that said an MSB rig with viva 300b amp and AG Uno spkr with all shunyata wires, was one rig I could easily pass up despite its unobtainium price tags.

unquestionably.


I've spent the day getting a fully licensed ver of Audirvana plus on the MAC 5K. whoa.

FYI... don't mess up the CC info! sheesh. repairing that error gets a bit involved.

now I just got to figure out how to make it play back itunes Music subscription files, and a couple other things.

to date I've heard many higher priced DACs in show rooms, at shows, and in friends homes. mitner. EMM Labs. Berkley. Bel Canto. DCS. MSB. Benchmark. Shiite. Bryston. hegel. Audio Note UK. Anthem.

the whole of the outfit, as is said here repeatedly, either makes for a goose bumpy event, or not. this is despite the DAC, or dAC stack! at least IMHO.

I wrote about a dAC shootout at a friends home on the regview pages of this site some years back. there is more info in that account.

I don't think I've heard the 'latest' versions of those aforementioned dACs except those I heard at the recent fL. Audio expo. Hegel 590 INT; Emm 2x; MSB, AVM, and DCS stacks, respectively, Bel Canto Black controller dAC, and a Luxman INT and CDP in several setups .

sadly, I missed the Lampersater Esoteric, and Manhattan setups. I kick myself for not finding these rooms!

the thing which prevents me from singularly associating sQ to these dACs was the fact in nearly every case, they were being fronted by a music streaming device/bridge, ala Wolfe, Lumen, Aurender, etc.

despite all that, the two DACs which constantly grab my attention have been EMM Labs and the bel Canto DACs in their various itterations and setups. one can't ignore being bowled over by certain brands regardless the setups the DACs were being used as source and or as controller.

AVM did come close to these with their modular MP 8.2 preamp which used its optional tube output stage, the AVM MP 8.2 monos, and a pr of Raiedo 2.2s.

but the doshi/Joeseph audio and Merril audio/Muadio rooms were the real standouts IMO. EMM labs was in the Merril room.

also noteworthy was the Carver room with Blade IIs and the Bel Canto preamp DAC controller hooked up with carver's Cardinal ((?) 75w tube amp.

apparently, there is simply something about the eMM and Bel Canto 'house' sound that gets to me.

as you alluded to, unless I stumble onto a bundle of duckets down the road, only preowned versions of these makers dACs will ever land here. though, they remain atop my short list. with an outside chance at having BC upgrade my BC DAC 3 somewhat.

maybe. well, probably. perhaps. lol

although, I an not terribly keen on shoving more $$$ into a DAC whose USB plug only allows for Red Book info, which is the case with my BC DAC 3.

on the house brand affectations, Lynx has a USB to Coax box available. but I don't thihnk it does do all the MQA and DSD nonsense and runs over $2k. but I have enjoyed their AES 16X sound card using Windoes boxes. their support dept is top shelf too.

as for these streaming and bridging interface devices, they appear the icing on the cake as it were.

IF serious money can be shoved into that slot, outstanding! if not, the S/A DAC of choice and whatever interface that conveys the digital files/streams to the DAC becomes a matter of due course. spend what you can there and don't look back. well, not too often I suppose.

You are correct in in that I currently use a Bryston DAC3.  At the time that I bought it I had a Mytek Manhatten I which I was extremely happy with.  I added the Bryston because it has HDMI inputs, and I have a large SACD collection (as well as Blu Ray and DVD Audio) and my Oppo 105 can output the DSD layer of these discs directly over HDMI.  The Manhatten also lacked a usb input, substituting FireWire instead.
  The difference between the the two DACs was that the Mytek absolutely excelled in data retrieval and gave me a front of the Hall experience.  The Bryston is detailed as well but not quite the XRay machine of the Mytek.  The latter was also a bit to hot in the treble in my system, with my B&W 803D Speakers.  Some Piano recordings were just to uncomfortable through the Mytek.  
  With some of my SACDs, I have had the I can reach out and touch the Musicians experience via the Oppo-Bryston combo.  Both the DACs excelled at DSD via downloads using the Oppo as a transport, but I only have a few of those and given the expense and difficulty of 
downloading them will only be accessing DSD via silver disc for now.  Neither DAC did MQA, although Mytek offered to upgrade the Manhatten, which would have also eliminated the fw input for usb.
  In the  end, since I can only listen to one DAC at a time, and since I wanted the proceeds of the Manhatten to finance the purchase of another piece of gear, I sold the Mytek.
   In your case, I would define your budget and get the best Bel Canto DAC that you can afford.  I would then worry about the other links in the chain, as there may be ways to optimize them without having to break the bank

@mahler123
with my B&W 803D Speakers.   With some of my SACDs, I have had the I can reach out and touch the Musicians experience via the Oppo-Bryston combo.  

OP says:
I remember those days with Red Book cDs via the Sony SCD XA 777 & BC DAC3, Thor line stage, and Dodd EL34 Monos, Silverline Sonata IIIs. as well though previous to it,   with the same front end but an all BAT power train, VK5 pre, VK500 w/BAT Pack SS stereo amp.


@mahler123
In the  end, since I can only listen to one DAC at a time, and since I wanted the proceeds of the Manhatten to finance the purchase of another piece of gear, I sold the Mytek.

OP says:
it be’s that way a lot around here too. gotta get off of this, to get one of those!


@mahler123
   In your case, I would define your budget and get the best Bel Canto DAC that you can afford.  


OP says:
outstanding input. many thanks. especially on the desparity between those two dACs.

I have a UDP 203. according to Oppo whatever digital info is handed off to it via Audirvana can or will pass thru its SPDIF outputs.

DSD likely must go thru HDMI as you said, if at all with a UDP 203.

the 203 recent firmware update provided MQA I think though I believe its from streaming services only and likely not passed thru any digital outputs. but maybe. I’ll have to look into that bit.

its sounds like the diffs in your two dACs was similar to what I experienced between a Lavry and the BC DAC3, with the Lavry being your Bryston, and the DAC3 the Manhattan.

I feel strongly that the ‘source’ supplying the analog feed eventually should be as transparent and akin to your ‘x ray’ characterization of the Manhattan

I declared the Lavry a BMW 5 series and the BC DAC3 a Dodge Viper. one soaked up the bumps, one revealed every descrepency on the roadway… and was far quicker!

I do also attend to system ’synergy’ and at times, some things simply do not mix well with the balance of the outfit.

in fact though, I like the proposition of having both ends of the rig as transparent as is possible without ever crossing the line into dry, strident, sterile, or analytical, and uber detailed. .

as such, and on the budget theme my philosophy has been figure out the budget, double that and then add a bit more for the next wahtever gizmo. often it demands selling one item and waiting to get the next. which plainly stinks a lil bit. lol

as my aspiration going forward will remain targeted to the best 16/44 rendering I can acquire, I’m gonna aim predominately for something from EMM Labs or bC at this point. I think.

DSD, MQA, and on a lesser scale HD files purchased online don’t interest me a lot. Just somewhat. I’ll buy some HD files here and there occasionally, but I’m gonna stick mostly to ripped track playback off a synology NAS.

things may change and I’m being far more open to change this go ‘round than ever before.

so, we’ll see.