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Why the fascination with subwoofers?

I have noticed many posts with questions about adding subwoofers to an audio system. Why the fascination with subwoofers? I guess I understand why any audiophile would want to hear more tight bass in their audio system, but why add a subwoofer to an existing audio system when they don’t always perform well, are costly, and are difficult to integrate with the many varied speakers offered. Additionally, why wouldn’t any audiophile first choose a speaker with a well designed bass driver designed, engineered and BUILT INTO that same cabinet? If anyone’s speakers were not giving enough tight bass, why wouldn’t that person sell those speakers and buy a pair that does have tight bass?
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noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
   clio09,
      I can only tell you what my definition of 'tight' bass is, which I realize may be a term that has different subjective meanings to others. A bit difficult to describe but easy to identify when you hear it.  
     Tight bass to me means accurate, solid and natural bass. The leading edges, the pitch and tone, the duration of the sound, the volume, the impact and the decay of the bass all are perceived as accurate and natural.  There's also no sense of exaggeration, attenuation, blurring or something added to or missing from the bass.  In other words, the sound of bass instruments sound right and tight, just as they sound when played well and heard live in person.
     I've also personally noticed that, if the musicians get too drunk, then you often don't get that proper degree of funk.

Tim
pcc67
226 posts
 
Thanks for all the links, it has given me a better understanding of subs and setup. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,753 posts
 
Can someone define for me what "tight" bass is.
An artifact of sound reproduction. It does not seem to occur in real life. Punch but no detail, in a nutshell.

To address Raul's attacks against me: I don't sell speakers of any sort. I recently moved, and now have a standing wave in my new listening room. I've seen how effective the Swarm addresses this so I know they will work in my situation. I only need two, as my speakers go down to 20Hz no worries.




bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,703 posts
 

@clio09, I think of bass reproduction in terms of leanness vs. plumpness. I’ve worked some with upright bass players, so have heard them up close in all kinds of acoustic environments. I have also heard them from the audience side, both unmic’ed and mic’ed. The fault I hear in it’s reproduction is that of making it sound too "round", not as "stringy" and "sinewy" as it sounds live. In person, an acoustic bass sounds like it is part of the string family in an orchestra, not that different from a cello, just playing lower notes.

As for electric bass, I use the sound heard by the playing of bassists in my own situations (Fender of course---Precision, Jazz, and Telecaster basses, but also Gibson, Guild, Danelectro/Silvertone, Hofner, and even the awful Rickenbacker ;-) as a reference, but also that of Joey Spampinato (NRBQ)---whom I have heard up close in a small club (The Roxy in L.A.), and John Entwistle (The Who), playing his original Precision at The Carousel Ballroom in San Francisco. Spampinato has the ability to make his Silvertone sound like an upright, coolest thing I’ve ever heard! Entwistle had the most massive bass sound I’ve ever heard (awesome!), with lots of staccato attack, but it was still not "fat". He was a GREAT bassist! I sure would have liked to see and hear James Jamerson live.

Brian Ding of Rythmik and Danny Richie of GR Research speak of a woofers ability to stop quickly when the signal ends as a major requirement for good bass reproduction; the lack of "overhang". There is also "overshoot"---the woofer traveling just a little past where it "should", smearing the bass in terms of it’s transient/temporal characteristic That’s as good an explanation as I’ve heard.

But all the above is about the reproduction of the bass as an instrument. In regard to over all bass balance in home hi-fi systems, rarely do I hear reproduced music with the bass weight and heft I hear at live music performances. Live music is much more "physical" than is reproduced, that physicality mostly low frequency in nature. A large part of that has to do with SPL, but also the size of the rooms music is performed in. Large venues support longer wavelengths (lower frequencies) than do smaller ones, and sound very different from our listening rooms. The final frontier in music reproduction!

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rauliruegas
13,002 posts
 
Dear @lewinskih01 : Only common sense. As I posted to you a few months ago that " seller "/atmasphere ( other time I will explain about that word " seller " because it’s no matters in this thread. ) said that his syatem goes down to 20hz no subs needs at all ( in that dicussion what we was discussing was that any passive speakers needs the integration of two self powered subs. ).

His answer ( what he posted in that thread. ) only showed his ignorance of the whole subwoofer/bass management because even his field coil speakers and his system will be improved through the addition of two self powered subs not 4.

Suddenly in this thread he gaves opinions as if he really been a true expert on the whole subject when even today he has no first hand expeiences in his room/system with subs, go figure. From where he already knows for sure what is posting.

I’m not attacking him but only disclosing those facts. That he be a tube electronics manufacturer does not means knows everything about everything in audio because at least in the subs/bass management whole subject it’s ignorant as you, me and any one else are ignorants on several subjects/topics in audio.

Look, I took around 1/one full year to integrate my subs in my room/system. A full year with " thousands " of tests till the subs were very good integrated to.

More than 16 years ago I was thinking exactly as atmasphere that because my ADS L2030 speakers goes down to 18hz I just do not need subs in my system.

I was totally wrong and was till I try and learned about subs that I added to my room/system and igf you look to my subwoofer thread that I posted in the analog forum its date is 2005, this is almost 14 years ago.

The first discovery for me was not if my system bass was now " rigth " but the paramount differences ( for the better ) that makes that I put at minimum the IMD of my ADS L2030 and till today I still think is the main improvement followed by all what we subs owners already experienced with.

No one can try to shows him self as a knowledge man just reading with out first hand experiences in his room/system.

Btw, for me makes no sense to have 3 or 5 bass evenly in any room/system because for the mid and high frequency range exist only one " rigth " seat position no matters what.
What we have to take care in deep is that at our room/listening seat position the bass, mid and high frequency ranges stays spot-on and that’s it.

Two subs are enough to acomplish that. Harman tell us in precise and scientific way: 4 are the ideal but two are enough. Ideal for more seat positions but 90%/95% of the quality performance levels we can accomplish with two subs, yes it will takes a little more time to do it but we can do it.

No, not one full year as I took where the main reason wa that I was totally ignorant on the whole bass regards and I did it alone with no advisors or the like and really was a huge learning lessons because I learned several other audio subjects other that the bass management.

I know that you already has very good knowledge levels with the subs but for new comers about this link could help:

https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

and he still posting that he needs only two subs because his speakers goes down 20hz ( solid hz. ): so what?, that confirms that he did not understand yet the overall subject in this thread and in the reality of any room/system.
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