Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant
Andy - the baffle is critically important for how the waveforms propagate into the room. Going back in history, common wisdom dictated the drivers be offset by differing amounts from all baffle edges so as to spread the diffractive effects out, over time. Thiel was an early originator of minimizing diffraction, first by absorption in the 03a and then by rounded baffle edges in the CS3 and beyond. We centered the drivers, like the mouth is centered in the head and a microphone diaphragm is centered in its structure.

There are many conflicting demands of driver placement geometry including unknown listener distance, reviewers ignoring the grille when it is a functional ingredient of diffraction control and so forth. Our seminal statement of the CS3, had the tweeter very high and equidistant L-R-T. The top baffle curve was completed by the top cross strut of the grille frame as were the sides to a lesser extent. Lots of time went into optimizing that system. But in use, the grille was often removed, including for reviewer testing, and the resultant diffraction was noted as a flaw in the design, never as a failure of the user - which left us all flabbergasted and Jim really angry.

As aside to that point. I remember the years-long comments by Larry Archibald, Stereophile publisher, regarding the "early" and "late" CS2s, and the latter's taming of upper range glare and roughness. He never admitted in print that he stubbornly listened to the CS2s for the first year without their sculpted grilles, which controlled edge diffraction as well as incorporated a shallow tweeter waveguide for limiting dispersion of the tweeter's low end to blend properly with the midrange. That blending is far more critical with the large-overlap first order slopes. Bottom line: there were no early or late CS2s, only eventual user cooperation with the design intent . . . and lots of confusion and mis-information in the marketplace.

Back to the point: tweeter placement evenly spaced to all edges including the top acts more like an ideal point source. Note that the CS3.7's industrial design is extremely polarizing and generally considered offensive. Only those adherents to form following function "get it" and either make their peace with it or actually love it. The driver height scheme is optimized for the broadest vertical listening window for seated listeners, dependent on crosspoint frequencies and driver dispersion characteristics.

So, Andy, even though the 2.4, like the earlier designs, does control diffraction very well, its lower tweeter creates a time discrepancy between side and top diffraction. That effect would be extremely subtle, such that I would be surprised if I could ever hear it. But, your ears are younger than mine.

@tomthiel, While I can see how the grill cloth frame on the 3.5's fits on to the top and side edges so that they avoid flat reflective edge surfaces, I have often wondered about the supporting frame extensions which seem to be in near and direct reflective path of the drivers. Any thoughts?

BTW, Those graceful curved baffles sure are pretty.

Unsound - everything matters, and there may be some effects from the forward parts. The cross struts are 1/4" diameter round bar, and not in the path of any drivers. The forward side verticals are 1/2x1/2" MDF, but so far off axis that they present a diamond profile more so than a flat surface. In developing those grilles, we couldn't measure or hear any deleterious effects (although they are hypothetically present.) The fabric itself does add resistance as frequency increases. We voiced for flat with that fabric in the  sound path.

That grille cloth was the most transparent we could find. Present cloth is even more transparent.

Beginning with the CS2, those frames went away, except for the CS5.
Our first CNC mill in 1985 allowed us to machine the more sophisticated solutions beginning with the CS2.2. Later, such as in the 2.4, the 1/16" die-cut steel frame virtually eliminates the frame's geometric advantages.


Tom,

Great info about the older Thiels and the importance of the grills.Audiophiles often seem to take it as a matter of fact that "all speakers sound better with the grills off" so you almost always see audiophiles using their speaker without grills.

I've noted how grills have often enough made a speaker sound more coherent.  Especially of course when they are designed to work with the grills on.

As to the design of the 3.7, I find them quite nice looking but also figured they would be off-putting to "normal folk."   Thus I was greatly surprised - when I was trying to find a replacement for the 3.7s just out of interest I'd show people pictures of more "normal" looking speakers and ask which they would prefer to see in our room, and most said they preferred the look of the 3.7s!   That went for my wife and her friends, even when I got the 2.7s which to me are about as subtle, contemporary and beautiful a design as speakers get, and my wife STILL said she preferred the looks of the 3.7s.  


As I said, I found this all quite surprising.

Even though I myself find the 3.7s to look quite wonderful in my room, and in many other rooms I've seen them in, especially if the room has a more modern look.


Also, FWIW, as I have mentioned before:  The 2.7s don't float images away from the L/R speaker locations as well as the 3.7s.  There is more of a "U" shape to the 2.7s soundstage in that respect.  Not exaggerated as that, but instruments panned towards either speaker tend to "stick" to the speaker a bit more vs the 3.7s that seemed to completely vanish as a sound source.  I think the last time I brought this up, Tom suggested it may be due to the heavier-duty front baffle on the 3.7s.